# Al Qaeda in Iraq: mutiplying like bread and fish? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392 "2007-06-25T21:19:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/21 "2007-06-26T03:31:23Z")
You know we have been through this before. Some 35 years ago every poor damned Vietnamese peasant who turned up dead was transfigured and transformed into a Viet Cong Fighter. There was always some trouble in explaining how we could have killed 150 VC but only picked up three weapons but that was only a minor problem. Such, my friends, is war. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/22 "2007-06-26T04:01:33Z")
The difference between an Al Quaida fighter and an Iraqi insurgent is clear as a bell to anyone who [looks carefully.](http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/epics/TOS70.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/23 "2007-06-27T01:24:31Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Huh. You’re not the only one who’s been struck by that, **RedFury**. I’ve been thinking the same damned thing lately – just how the hell do they actually know all those people they’ve been killing in Iraq are ALL al Qaeda lately? Maybe I’m paranoid, but it’s got a definite stink of propaganda to me. [/QUOTE] Surely you’ve heard the old quote that goes : “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they are not out to get you.” In any event, glad to hear I wasn’t the only one noticing the trend. Also, it appears, _someone_ at the NYT read Greenwald’s article as well. Take a look at this article from today and compare it with the quotes Glenn brings up on his own – from the same source of course: [U.S. Plan to Capture and Kill **Insurgents** in Baquba Fell Far Short of Goal, Officer Says](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/world/middleeast/26baquba.html?ex=1340510400&en=7eee4fa6bc11e715&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) The article itself, IMHO, is just more of the same blah blah blah we’ve been hearing for years (ages?) now, how no mission is ever ‘really accomplished due to this or that,’ but what strikes my funny bone is that, all of a sudden after the two/three week rush, it is no longer ‘just’ Al Qaeda terrorists that are included in the list. I mean, really, duh, for all the reasons I’ve mentioned and cited. But what’s sad, _really_ sad, is **Squink’s** post on the matter. For it apparently only took three to four weeks of this ‘new’ rethoric to confound 5% of your population yet _once again_. Fuck, if taxi-drivers (no put-down, quite the opposite) in Europe can see right through the Bushit, what the heck is the matter with your ever so-fickle countrymen and women? Seriously and as you obviously know, this isn’t exactly rocket science. It simply requires a bit more attention than a gnat might give it. And yeah, **Spivined Gelding’s** correct. All the more reason to take these “news” with more than a grain of salt. Can the public be maneuvered that easily? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/24 "2007-06-27T01:32:29Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Thoughts? Are they fooling anyone? Who’s swallowing the latest Bushit? [/QUOTE] Themselves ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Albert\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albert_Rose)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/25 "2007-06-27T02:12:23Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] …Sadly, my default assumption for any action taken by this administration has become that it is a runup to some nefarious action to be named later. [/QUOTE] At least they’re planning ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Themenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/26 "2007-06-27T13:16:14Z")
This recent [BBC News story](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6239896.stm) highlights the same question Short version : > [@BBC News](#): > > On 22 June the US military announced that its attack helicopters, armed with missiles, engaged and killed 17 al-Qaeda gunmen who had been trying to infiltrate the village of al-Khalis (…) But villagers in largely-Shia al-Khalis say that those who died had nothing to do with al-Qaeda. They say they were local village guards trying to protect the township from exactly the kind of attack by insurgents the US military says it foiled. Even if we accept the dubious notion that “foreign fighters” = “Al Qaeda”, these guys were clearly locals. Obviously this doesn’t prove they were non-hostiles, but local shiites as Al-Qaeda seems kind of improbable. > [@BBC News](#): > > If the villagers’ account is true, the incident would raise many questions, including: > > ``` > * On what basis did the US helicopters launch their attack that night? > > * How many other coalition reports of successes against "al-Qaeda fighters" are based on similar mistakes, especially when powerful remote weaponry is used? > > ``` On the other hand, it’s hard to figure out what the hell _is_ going on in Iraq. The official position is that the coalition has occupied Iraq since 2003, but what exactly does that mean ? In the last couple of weeks 10,000 coalition troops along with tanks and air-support have been thrown at Baquba, which is 60 km from Baghdad, a major military offensive. So who actually controls the territory ? What made the Baquba guys stand out as insurgents ? Were they wreaking havoc ? Were they flying insurgent flags ? Had they previously driven out US troops from Baquba ? The number of coalition troops and in particular the number of coalition casualties seem to indicate that large parts of Iraq aren’t really occupied. So, who’s the enemy ? Are the Baquba insurgents the same guys who are planting the roadside bombs ? It seems like it would be counter-productive for a clandestine bombing operation to advertise its whereabouts, so maybe not. What’s the relationship between the Sunni insurgents and Al Qaeda ? How about the US-armed Sunni insurgents ? Are the Sunni insurgents fighting amongst themselves, or do they get together once year in Atlantic City to divide up the territory ? It seems to me there are only two viable options to restore the peace : - saturate Iraq’s cities and infrastructure with troops, and accept the casualties and cost - alliances (however unsavory) and a highly effective intelligence network Absent either of these, we’re back with the body-count paradigm, and Al-Qaeda is flavor du jour - [COALITION FORCES KILL 17 AL-QAEDA GUNMEN NEAR KHALIS](http://www.centcom.mil/sites/uscentcom2/Lists/Current%20Press%20Releases/DispForm.aspx?ID=5169) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/27 "2007-06-27T13:56:58Z")
Of course, it wouldn’t occur to you that al-Qaida is being mentioned more now because the shift in tactics is targeting al-Qaida, and because numerous native insurgent groups have turned on al-Qaida and are now helping the coalition. If you want to read something actually informative instead of the latest glurge from the ‘underground press’, you could read [Understanding Current Operations](http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/06/understanding-current-operatio/) in the _Small Wars Journal_, written by one of the architects of the current strategy: > [@](#): > > On June 15th we kicked off a major series of division-sized operations in Baghdad and the surrounding provinces. As General Odierno said, we have finished the build-up phase and are now beginning the actual “surge of operations”. I have often said that we need to give this time. That is still true. But this is the end of the beginning: we are now starting to put things onto a viable long-term footing. > > These operations are qualitatively different from what we have done before. Our concept is to knock over several insurgent safe havens simultaneously, in order to prevent terrorists relocating their infrastructure from one to another, and to create an operational synergy between what we’re doing in Baghdad and what’s happening outside. Unlike on previous occasions, we don’t plan to leave these areas once they’re secured. These ops will run over months, and the key activity is to stand up viable local security forces in partnership with Iraqi Army and Police, as well as political and economic programs, to permanently secure them. The really decisive activity will be police work, registration of the population and counterintelligence in these areas, to comb out the insurgent sleeper cells and political cells that have “gone quiet” as we moved in, but which will try to survive through the op and emerge later. This will take operational patience, and it will be intelligence-led, and Iraqi government-led. It will probably not make the news (the really important stuff rarely does) but it will be the truly decisive action. The guy is honest that the strategy could fail, and that the enemy will no doubt have counter-ops that will have to be dealt with. But it’s a pretty good description. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/28 "2007-06-27T14:00:02Z")
> [@Themenin](#): > > Are the Baquba insurgents the same guys who are planting the roadside bombs ? It seems like it would be counter-productive for a clandestine bombing operation to advertise its whereabouts, so maybe not. What’s the relationship between the Sunni insurgents and Al Qaeda ? It appears from this [LA Times account](http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fairenough/latimesA73.html) about Baqubah, that the words “insurgents” and “Al Qaeda” are interchangeable. And yep, that is news to me too. > [@](#): > > For more than a year, hundreds of masked gunmen loyal to Al Qaeda (?) cruised this capital of their self-declared state, hauling Shiite Muslims from their homes and leaving bodies in the dusty, trash-strewn streets. > > \ > > U.S. and Iraqi troops say they have captured, injured or killed about 150 of the militants since the assault began last Tuesday. _ **But they acknowledged Monday that they had found no top Al Qaeda in Iraq leaders** _, and speculated that 100 to 350 militants had fled ahead of the offensive, which involved 10,000 troops. > > But U.S. Army Col. Stephen Townsend, who commands the 3rd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, based in Ft. Lewis, Wash., said **the assault had denied the insurgents a major bastion** and helped secure this city of about 300,000 residents. > > \ > When _ **U.S. infantrymen entered the militants’ headquarters in the Khatoon district** _ before dawn Sunday, white flags fluttered from the rooftops. Residents, who welcomed the soldiers with enthusiastic handshakes and trays of sodas, said the militants had loaded weapons into their cars and fled days earlier. – highlights and question mark mine. So, as you can see, we now have “insurgents”, “militants” and “Al Qaeda” all bunched together as one. But for the purpose of MSM headlines, as your own BBC article points out, they’ve obviously found it best to bunch them all into that old bogeyman, “Al Qaeda.” Kill them all and let Allah sort them out. And keep those lies coming for as **Squink’s** pol numbers show, they still work. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/29 "2007-06-27T14:10:18Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] If you want to read something actually informative instead of the latest glurge from the ‘underground press’, you could read [Understanding Current Operations](http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/06/understanding-current-operatio/) in the _Small Wars Journal_, written by one of the architects of the current strategy: [/QUOTE] Once again, you are trying to blur the distinction between insurgents and Al-Qaeda. Your cite does it as well: he admits we are fighting "al Qa’ida, Shi’a extremist militias, and the other terrorist groups. ", yet all the reports of operations only identify adversaries as “the enemy” or “terrorists”, ambiguous terms that include the much more numerous Sunni and Shiite fighters with no link to Al Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/30 "2007-06-27T14:22:44Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Once again, you are trying to blur the distinction between insurgents and Al-Qaeda. Your cite does it as well: he admits we are fighting "al Qa’ida, Shi’a extremist militias, and the other terrorist groups. ", yet all the reports of operations only identify adversaries as “the enemy” or “terrorists”, ambiguous terms that include the much more numerous Sunni and Shiite fighters with no link to Al Qaeda. [/QUOTE] And far be it from me to contradict Dr Pangloss and his Blog of Truth but how about this Associated Press report. [Iraq security forces not stepping up to the plate](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DOUBTING_BAGHDAD?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) > [@](#): > > American military commanders now seriously doubt that Iraqi security forces will be able to hold the ground that U.S. troops are fighting to clear - gloomy predictions that strike at the heart of Washington’s key strategy to turn the tide in Iraq. > > Several senior American officers have warned in recent days that Iraqi soldiers and police are still incapable of maintaining security on their own in the most crucial areas, including Baghdad and the recently reclaimed districts around Baqouba to the north. > > \ > > “The challenge now is: How do you hold onto the terrain you’ve cleared?” said Brig. Gen. Mick Bednarek, the operations chief of the current offensive in Baqouba, where Sunni insurgents have taken root in recent months. He said this week that U.S. forces have control of much of Baqouba. > > “You have to do that shoulder-to-shoulder with Iraqi security forces. And they’re not quite up to the job yet,” Bednarek said. > > \ > > Lynch said there were large portions of his area “where there are no Iraqi security forces at all” and so “the enemy fills the void.” > > \ > > Although some Iraqi units appear competent, U.S. officials privately complain that many others still lack ammunition, weapons and an adequate supply network to operate on their own. Leadership in many units is weak, and the force has yet to develop the professional spirit to cope with adversity. > > U.S. officials want Iraqi forces to number about 390,000 by the end of the year. That requires training about 20,000 more Iraqi soldiers this year with a further increase in 2008, according to Lt. Gen. Martin Dempsey, who until recently headed the training effort. > > The State Department sets the number of those Iraqi security forces that are fully “trained and equipped” at slightly more than 353,000. > > The extra numbers are necessary to cover the high rates of absenteeism in the Iraqi military - including desertions, vacations and AWOLS - which Dempsey said average about 25 percent among Iraqi units at any given time. > > Iraqi troops manning checkpoints often wave through cars carrying women or children without proper searches, U.S. troops complain. Some residents of a contested area south of Baghdad say Iraqi police and soldiers turn a blind eye to insurgents as long as they don’t attack their checkpoints. > > Nowhere is the challenge more acute than in Baqouba and surrounding Diyala province, north of Baghdad. Some Iraqi units appear competent? Well, get the flags out. :rolleyes: Relying on an incompetent, sectional, corrupt and cowardly army with a 25% absentee rate sounds like a real sound basis for the surge. Just like relying on the ARVN was. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/31 "2007-06-27T14:22:25Z")
Double-post. Had a “connection timed-out” message. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/32 "2007-06-27T14:25:56Z")
It’s not just the OP, try readin the BBC article right above you, **Sam**. Besides the fact that I placed “underground” in quotes with tongue firmly planted cheek, that’s hardly an apt description of Salon – other than it being the devil to you tighty-righties. And even then, you weak-ass, military propaganda blog (now that’s what I would _seriously_ count as “underground” press) has this to say: > [@](#): > > \*The “terrain” we are clearing is human terrain, not physical terrain. It is about **marginalizing al Qa’ida, Shi’a extremist militias** , and the other terrorist groups from the population they prey on. This is why claims that “80% of AQ leadership have fled” don’t overly disturb us: the aim is not to kill every last AQ leader, but rather to drive them off the population and keep them off, so that we can work with the community to prevent their return. – my bolding. So how come all the MSM headlines only mention Al Qaeda? Only confirms what my own LA Times article had to say: namely that AQ targets are few and hard to come by. Therefore, I feel that I can safely call “Bushit” (as does the very BBC) on the new surge of “killed AQ operatives.” You’re simply killing Iraqis. Whether they are “insurgents” or not, is a question we might never know the answer to. But as posted here on a regular basis, one thing we DO know is that American forces are NOT wanted there by a large majority, be they active insurgents, Sunnies, Shiias, or not. In the meantime, you’re welcomed to keep feeding on the Bushit…I expect nothing else from you. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/33 "2007-06-27T14:30:30Z")
Anyway, I see that my point has already been made quite concisely by **Fear Itself.** You know, don’t you **Sam** , that you’re not exactly dealing with a bunch of trained chimps here, right? Then quit trying to bullshit us. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/34 "2007-06-27T15:48:13Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] First guy who come even close to saying anything like “that’s all Greek to me” will be hunted down like a dog. You’ve been warned. [/QUOTE] Woof, woof. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/35 "2007-06-27T16:14:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] written by one of the architects of the current strategy [/QUOTE] Uh huh. No conflict of interest there. “We are adjusting our tactics in order to kill more al-Qaeda and only al-Qaeda. And lookit all the al-Qaeda we’re killing!” Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/36 "2007-06-27T19:47:26Z")
Psst, **Sam**? How’s about you give this a read and get back to us with more “military strategy”? [**Atrocities and Criminal Homicides in Iraq**](http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/atrocitindex.htm) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/37 "2007-06-27T20:50:01Z")
Commies they’re everywhere! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/38 "2007-06-27T21:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Commies they’re everywhere! [/QUOTE] Social Democrat, actually. And I certainly hope we are. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/39 "2007-06-28T14:22:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Of course, it wouldn’t occur to you that al-Qaida is being mentioned more now because the shift in tactics is targeting al-Qaida, and because numerous native insurgent groups have turned on al-Qaida and are now helping the coalition. [/quote] I’ve been against the war from the beginning and I’ll go on record as saying that the current US strategy of helping Sunni insurgent groups will backfire down the road. As one insurgent leader said (which I unfortunately couldn’t find a quote for now), they hate the Al-Qaida more than they hate the Americans and the Shiites, which is why they are cooperating. So we are helping people who were shooting at us get rid of their enemies so that after the enemies are gone, then they can go back to shooting us? > [@](#): > > If you want to read something actually informative instead of the latest glurge from the ‘underground press’, you could read [Understanding Current Operations](http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/06/understanding-current-operatio/) in the _Small Wars Journal_, written by one of the architects of the current strategy: > > The guy is honest that the strategy could fail, and that the enemy will no doubt have counter-ops that will have to be dealt with. But it’s a pretty good description. From the article: > [@](#): > > Therefore—and this is the major change in our strategy this year—protecting and controlling the population is do-able, but destroying the enemy is not. We can drive him off from the population, then introduce local security forces, population control, and economic and political development, and thereby “hard-wire” the enemy out of the environment, preventing his return. One could only have wished that David has addressed the comments from the [generals on the ground](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/24/AR2007062400189.html). > [@](#): > > The U.S. commander of a new offensive north of Baghdad, reclaiming insurgent territory day by day, said Sunday his Iraqi partners may be too weak to hold onto the gains. > > The Iraqi military does not even have enough ammunition, said Brig. Gen. Mick Bednarek: “They’re not quite up to the job yet.” > > His counterpart south of Baghdad seemed to agree, saying U.S. troops are too few to garrison the districts newly rid of insurgents. “It can’t be coalition (U.S.) forces. We have what we have. There’s got to be more Iraqi security forces,” said Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch. So we’re back to the inevitable Vietnam comparisons, where the US would clear an area only to find that the SVN army couldn’t hold it, so we would clear it again and again. The other major flaw here is that the necessary political and economical development would take far longer than the US has patience for, not to mention that the US would require far more forces that The Surge is providing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/40 "2007-06-28T16:02:06Z")
[QUOTE=TokyoPlayer] …So we’re back to the inevitable Vietnam comparisons, where the US would clear an area only to find that the SVN army couldn’t hold it, so we would clear it again and again… [/QUOTE] Joke from that era. “ARVN rifle for sale. Like new, never fired, only dropped once.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392.md?page=3)