# Al Qaqaa: where the roadside bombs come from **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023 "2004-10-25T09:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/221 "2004-10-28T04:43:21Z")
Wouldn’t that be post-modernist as all get-out, irony wise? Say it all washes out about a week after the election, turns out to be a total chimera, and say that QaQaagate is the tipping point, Bush loses one percent of the security mom vote and down he goes…and then it turns out that the fuckup that sinks his boat, is the _one and only_ fuckup he’s not actually responsible for! I would be inclined to consider this proof for the existence of a just and loving God. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/222 "2004-10-28T05:31:46Z")
I’ll keep this brief, so our Dopers-in-denial (you know who you are 😉 ) can digest this easier: **[The Iraqis say there’s no way for the explosives to have been stolen before the war.](http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=31993)** > [@](#): > > Mohammed al-Sharaa, who heads the science ministry’s site monitoring department and worked with UN weapons inspectors under Saddam, said “it is impossible that these materials could have been taken from this site before the regime’s fall.” > > He said he and other officials had been ordered a month earlier to insure that “not even a shred of paper left the sites.” > > “The officials that were inside this facility (Al-Qaqaa) beforehand confirm that not even a shred of paper left it before the fall and I spoke to them about it and they even issued certified statements to this effect which the US-led coalition was aware of.” > > He said officials at Al-Qaqaa, including its general director, whom he refused to name, made contact with US troops before the fall in an effort to get them to provide security for the site. So, to recap: 1. Before the war, the IAEA repeatedly warned the Bush Administraion about the cache at Al Qaqaa. 2. The explosives were not removed from Al Qaqaa before the war, as confirmed by the Iraqis. 3. When US forces reached Al Qaqaa during the war, they noted the presence of white powder, but were too busy haulin’ ass to Baghdad to bother to secure the site. 4. 380 tons of white powdery explosives subsequently went missing. 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = Bushies screwed up. QED. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/223 "2004-10-28T06:01:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The real issue is the abuse and erosion of the fourth estate. That’s the real concern. > > There is no impartial reporting source any more, anywhere. > > Nobody is doing their level best to report the truth to us. > > We all lose. You know, reading these sentences in isolation I’d almost think that you had decided to step back and take a look at all the reporting in the lead-up to the Iraq war…All of Judith Miller’s New York Times stories about WMDs or all the reports about how Saddam had “kicked out” the inspectors in 1998. Or, maybe it was all those breathless reports during the war itself of likely WMD finds that turned out to be nonsense but nonetheless had (along with administration propaganda) a large fraction of the American public believing manifestly false things about WMDs (which many seem to believe to this day). But, then I look at the lines above it and realize that, no, you are merely complaining that the media are not even more right-wing lap-dogs. It seems fine as long as the media is making mistakes in one direction but if they make any mistakes in the other direction then it is a freakin’ disaster. (And, of course, you have lowered your standard of mistakes to the point where a “mistake” is defined as not going with the right-wing view of still-disputed events…and, in fact some events that are pretty settled except if you’ve been using the Washington Times and the Drudge Report as your sole sources of information.) ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/224 "2004-10-28T12:15:37Z")
Man, did John Kerry miss an opportunity on this one. Just think, had he not already said that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, he could have accused President Bush of allowing the terrorists to aquire them. Anyways, this is just another example illustrating the disgusting and dangerous level of partisanship that is endured in defense of liberalism. So, all you liberals who are shreiking, “Bush’s fault!!”, let me ask you. Did you hold Clinton equally accountable when classified computer discs and enough plutonium to make 150 nuclear weapons came up missing at Los Alamos Nuclear Labratory? ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/225 "2004-10-28T12:25:06Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Just think, had he not already said that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, he could have accused President Bush of allowing the terrorists to aquire them. The missing explosives are not WMD. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/226 "2004-10-28T12:35:21Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > So, all you liberals who are shreiking, “Bush’s fault!!”, let me ask you. Did you hold Clinton equally accountable when classified computer discs and enough plutonium to make 150 nuclear weapons came up missing at Los Alamos Nuclear Labratory? Removable computer disks keep going “missing” at Los Alamos, and have continued to do so well [into the Bush administration](http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,94586,00.html). The scientists who handle this material get careless, taking the disks to wherever they need to work on them without taking care of the proper paperwork. Every time, the disks turn up eventually. There’s no evidence that any classified information has ever left the facility in this manner. All the available evidence suggests that the “missing” plutonium is also the result of [sloppy bookkeeping](http://www.ieer.org/radio/27lanlpu.html). I don’t think anyone involved actually believes that any plutonium has been spirited away by terrorists. By contrast, the repeated suicide bombings in Iraq make it abundantly clear that there are plenty of explosives in the hands of various unpleasant people. ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/227 "2004-10-28T12:35:32Z")
Ha!! Check this out. > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (CNN) – The White House defended National Security Adviser Sameul Berger on Wednesday after several Republican presidential contenders called for his resignation over the China nuclear scandal. > > **"Regrettably, it’s another example of the Republican attack politics that makes accusations first and gets information later** ," presidential spokesman Joe Lockhart told reporters on Air Force One, > [http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/10/nuclear.secrets.02/](http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/10/nuclear.secrets.02/) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/228 "2004-10-28T12:39:02Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Anyways, this is just another example illustrating the disgusting and dangerous level of partisanship that is endured in defense of liberalism. > > So, all you liberals who are shreiking, “Bush’s fault!!”, let me ask you. Excellent–I take your castigation of partisans to heart, kiddo. You’re always good for a laugh. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/229 "2004-10-28T12:43:40Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Ha!! Check this out. Wait a minute. Are you actually trotting out Wen Ho Lee as an example of espionage at Los Alamos? The man who, it turns out, was falsely accused? Who was convicted only of not following the proper procedures for handling classified material? Thank you for providing another example that proves my point. Well done! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/230 "2004-10-28T12:51:52Z")
So I’m trying to understand the defense of the administration’s behavior in this case: 1. Huh? 2. Oh, wait, reporters say the explosives weren’t there on April 9! Liars! 3. Oh, wait, the reporters say they didn’t search, but they also didn’t specifically see the explosives there. So maybe they were there, and you can’t prove otherwise! Liars! 4. There’s no way that much explosives could have left right under the army’s nose! Liars! 5. Oh, okay, there are multiple witnesses saying that’s just what happened. Hmmm… 6. Those explosives weren’t very dangerous! Liars! 7. Maybe those dangerous explosives got looted, but lots more dangerous weapons were destroyed! 8. We can’t hold Bush responsible for every little error that anyone in the army does! 9. Okay, so maybe these explosives were looted in the days after the US first showed up at the site, but c’mon–you gotta allow everyone a grace period of a month or so before expecting an occupying army to, y’know, **occupy**. Those terrorists who looted the facility weren’t playing fair. 10. Okay, so maybe they got looted, but what if it was only 3 tons of explosives? Huh? Whaddya say to that? 11. Ain’t it just handy that the liberal media are releasing this story right before the election? Them and their Iraqi Provisional Government flunkies? 12. Yeah, well, what about some disks in a nuclear facility last millennium? 13. Look over there, a three-headed monkey! This is called assymmetric debate: instead of occupying an argument and defending it, y’all are jumping all over the place, throwing up contradictory smokescreens that you don’t defend because, once investigated, they prove to be indefensible. What does it take to get you to admit this administration made a mistake? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/231 "2004-10-28T12:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > So, all you liberals who are shreiking, “Bush’s fault!!”, let me ask you. Did you hold Clinton equally accountable when classified computer discs and enough plutonium to make 150 nuclear weapons came up missing at Los Alamos Nuclear Labratory? Hell no, you didn’t, just like when you now shreik, “Bush was AWOL”, you turned a blind-eye to Clinton actually dodging the draft. Liberal’s make my skin crawl. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/232 "2004-10-28T12:54:23Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Hell no, you didn’t, just like when you now shreik, “Bush was AWOL”, you turned a blind-eye to Clinton actually dodging the draft. > > Liberal’s make my skin crawl. Answering his own question…this answers a hell of a lot of questions about **Razorsharp** that _I’ve_ had, anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/233 "2004-10-28T13:07:07Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Hell no, you didn’t, just like when you now shreik, “Bush was AWOL”, you turned a blind-eye to Clinton actually dodging the draft. > > Liberal’s make my skin crawl. You don’t have to use apostrophes for normal plural words. There is nothing wrong with dodging the draft. There IS something wrong with going AWOL. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/234 "2004-10-28T13:11:30Z")
My apologies for participating in this egregious hijack; can we all agree (or at least enough of us agree) not to participate in inane and irrelevant conversations about which president dodged more draft etc.? The issue here isn’t dodging the draft: the issue at hand is high explosives left unguarded. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/235 "2004-10-28T13:26:25Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > My apologies for participating in this egregious hijack; can we all agree (or at least enough of us agree) not to participate in inane and irrelevant conversations about which president dodged more draft etc.? > > The issue here isn’t dodging the draft: the issue at hand is high explosives left unguarded. > > Daniel In your out of date, fact-based reality maybe (henceforth to be referred to as ‘the real world’). But out here in ‘faith-based reality,’ or to give it its more accurate name, La-La Land, there is no such thing as a fact, just talking points to be shouted up or shouted over depending on their utility to the Leader’s bid to be re-appointed by the Supreme Court. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/236 "2004-10-28T13:37:54Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > So I’m trying to understand the defense of the administration’s behavior in this case: > > 1. Huh? > 2. Oh, wait, reporters say the explosives weren’t there on April 9! Liars! > 3. Oh, wait, the reporters say they didn’t search, but they also didn’t specifically see the explosives there. So maybe they were there, and you can’t prove otherwise! Liars! > 4. There’s no way that much explosives could have left right under the army’s nose! Liars! > 5. Oh, okay, there are multiple witnesses saying that’s just what happened. Hmmm… > 6. Those explosives weren’t very dangerous! Liars! > 7. Maybe those dangerous explosives got looted, but lots more dangerous weapons were destroyed! > 8. We can’t hold Bush responsible for every little error that anyone in the army does! > 9. Okay, so maybe these explosives were looted in the days after the US first showed up at the site, but c’mon–you gotta allow everyone a grace period of a month or so before expecting an occupying army to, y’know, **occupy**. Those terrorists who looted the facility weren’t playing fair. > 10. Okay, so maybe they got looted, but what if it was only 3 tons of explosives? Huh? Whaddya say to that? > 11. Ain’t it just handy that the liberal media are releasing this story right before the election? Them and their Iraqi Provisional Government flunkies? > 12. Yeah, well, what about some disks in a nuclear facility last millennium? > 13. Look over there, a three-headed monkey! > > This is called assymmetric debate: instead of occupying an argument and defending it, y’all are jumping all over the place, throwing up contradictory smokescreens that you don’t defend because, once investigated, they prove to be indefensible. > > What does it take to get you to admit this administration made a mistake? > > Daniel You forgot one. 1. RUSSIA TOOK 'EM! Reported with glee, and no comment on the horrific and frightening implications of either finding out the story is true (which would mean that 1) **Russia** , though they refused to help Saddam during the first Gulf War, decided to help him prior to the invasion, and so is our enemy again, 2) the explosives were dispersed to at least 3 other anti-American countries, 3) they’re still missing, 4) our spy satellites suck), or finding out the story is false (Rev. Moon’s newspaper is trying to smear **Russia** and re-start the Cold War!). In other news: [http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1](http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1) (includes pictures!) ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/237 "2004-10-28T13:50:06Z")
I don’t generally post in this forum, getting enough political arguments elsewhere, but it was just reported that the Pentagon has satellite photos taken BEFORE the invasion that shows heavy semi truck activity at Al Quaquaa. Perhaps some of the resident Bush-bashers should look before they leap. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/238 "2004-10-28T13:54:14Z")
> [@](#): > > EYEWITNESS NEWS determined our crew embedded with them may have been on the southern edge of the Al Qaqaa installation, where that ammunition disappeared. Our crew was based just south of Al Qaqaa. On April 18, 2003 they drove two or three miles north into what is believed to be that area. > > During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew bunker after bunker of material labelled explosives. **Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get in and see the material** So ActionMcNews removed the UN seals for the terrorist looters! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/239 "2004-10-28T13:54:51Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > I don’t generally post in this forum, getting enough political arguments elsewhere, but it was just reported that the Pentagon has satellite photos taken BEFORE the invasion that shows heavy semi truck activity at Al Quaquaa. > Perhaps some of the resident Bush-bashers should look before they leap. Then I’m sure you won’t mind providing a reputable cite. Not even Fox News is carrying it, as of 30 seconds ago. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/240 "2004-10-28T13:58:45Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > I don’t generally post in this forum, getting enough political arguments elsewhere, but it was just reported that the Pentagon has satellite photos taken BEFORE the invasion that shows heavy semi truck activity at Al Quaquaa. Add this to **Equipoise’s** addition, and the list of arguments is up to fifteen. Note that number fifteen contradicts numbers 5, 8, 9, and 10. This is getting silly, in a _Catch-22_ kind of awful way. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=13)