# Al Qaqaa: where the roadside bombs come from **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023 "2004-10-25T09:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/241 "2004-10-28T13:58:53Z")
If it seems like we’re just a _little_ bit skeptical of the Administration, I’d like to point you to a story called “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”. This president’s been shouting wolf for the last four years. Cut us a little break for being just the teensiest bit leery of anything he or his administration says. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/242 "2004-10-28T13:59:02Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Then I’m sure you won’t mind providing a reputable cite. Not even Fox News is carrying it, as of 30 seconds ago. But allow me to quote something else from that impeccable source. > [@](#): > > A group calling itself Al-Islam’s Army Brigades (search), Al-Karar Brigade, said it had coordinated with officers and soldiers of “the American intelligence” to obtain a “huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqaa facility.” > > The claim couldn’t be independently verified. The speaker was surrounded by masked, armed men standing in front of a black banner with the group’s name on it in the tape obtained by Associated Press Television News. > > “We promise God and the Iraqi people that we will use it against the occupation forces and those who cooperate with them in the event of these forces threatening any Iraqi city,” the man added. [Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136889,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/243 "2004-10-28T14:02:59Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Then I’m sure you won’t mind providing a reputable cite. Not even Fox News is carrying it, as of 30 seconds ago. Yes, “even” Fox News reported it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/244 "2004-10-28T14:03:09Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > So ActionMcNews removed the UN seals for the terrorist looters! 😃 Actually, watch the video clip accompanying the article. It was members of the 101[sup]st[/sup] with the bolt cutters, not the embedded news team. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/245 "2004-10-28T14:09:04Z")
Did I just begin a sentance with ‘actually’?!? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/246 "2004-10-28T14:10:16Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Yes, “even” Fox News reported it. :rolleyes: Well provide the damn cite, it’s your claim. Note, roll-eyes are not a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/247 "2004-10-28T14:14:31Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > In other news: [http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1](http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1) (includes pictures!) I couldn’t get the video link here to work for me, so I found another one: [http://kstp.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art\_ID=159660](http://kstp.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=159660) Also of interest, there are satellite pictures of the compound here: [http://www.globalsecurity.org/](http://www.globalsecurity.org/) (scroll down, to “Picture of the week” then click for more) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/248 "2004-10-28T14:15:36Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Well provide the damn cite, it’s your claim. Note, roll-eyes are not a cite. The Bushies are starting to take their cues from Glorious Leader. If they chuckle disarmingly or roll their eyes, the righteous people of America will be whisked out of this fact-based reality and forced to realize that the Administration _creates reality_ by their actions and beliefs. Choose the red pill, Neo… ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/249 "2004-10-28T14:21:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If it seems like we’re just a _little_ bit skeptical of the Administration, I’d like to point you to a story called “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”. This president’s been shouting wolf for the last four years. Cut us a little break for being just the teensiest bit leery of anything he or his administration says. This is a major hijack, sorry, but that reminded me of this great speech from Congressman Tim Ryan on the House floor, in reaction to Bush’s assurances of no draft: > [@](#): > > [http://timryan.house.gov/HoR/OH17/Hidden+Content/Draft+Speech.htm](http://timryan.house.gov/HoR/OH17/Hidden+Content/Draft+Speech.htm) > > Mr. RYAN of Ohio. > > Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me time. > > I rise in opposition of this bill, but I would like to clarify something. We are not trying to scare kids. This President’s foreign policy is what is scaring the kids of this country. And people have said today, why are people believing this? Why are people believing this big Internet hoax? > > It is the same people who told us that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11; the same people who told us Saddam Hussein had something to do with weapons of mass destruction; the same people who told us we would be able to use the oil for reconstruction money; the same people who told us we would be greeted as liberators, not occupiers; the same people, the same President who told us the Taliban is gone; the same President who told us that Poland is our ally 2 days before they pull out; the same President who tells us Iraq is going just great; the same President who tells us the economy is going just great; the same people who told us the tax cuts were going to create millions of jobs; the same people who told us that the Medicare program only cost $400 billion when it really cost $540 billion. > > So please forgive us for believing what you are saying. Please forgive the students of this country for not believing what you are saying. Not one thing, not one thing about this war that has been told to the American people or that has been told to these college students has been true. Not one thing. Bremer says we need more troops. The Pentagon says we need more troops, and this President cannot get them from the international community. There is only one option left. Let us be honest with the American people. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/250 "2004-10-28T14:21:28Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The Bushies are starting to take their cues from Glorious Leader. If they chuckle disarmingly or roll their eyes, the righteous people of America will be whisked out of this fact-based reality and forced to realize that the Administration _creates reality_ by their actions and beliefs. > > Choose the red pill, Neo… Well i’ve searched the Fox News site and it’s not obvious where they are burying this ‘and-with-one-bound-our-hero-was-free’ bombshell. Bloody liberal media. Maybe they buried it where only the most assiduous and dedicated seeker of truth can find it and said seeker was just too exhausted to provide a link. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/251 "2004-10-28T15:15:55Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Did I just begin a sentance with ‘actually’?!? :smack: Actually, you just began a sent **e** nce with ‘actually’ 😉 _And_ now we have word that the 101[sup]st[/sup] chased off Iraqi troops who were probably _guarding_ the site, footage of them cutting the seals that secured the explosives, and then leaving the site unattended. :smack: Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/252 "2004-10-28T15:32:14Z")
And this sums it up. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There is nothing wrong with dodging the draft. There IS something wrong with going AWOL. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/253 "2004-10-28T15:36:17Z")
Actually, it was units from the 3rd ID, who chased off the Iraqi military. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/254 "2004-10-28T15:39:36Z")
Russia’s not too happy today. > [@](#): > > [Russia Denies Involvement in Iraq Weapons](http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-russia-iraq-weapons,0,995083.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines) > > October 28, 2004, 8:25 AM EDT > MOSCOW – Russia angrily denied allegations Thursday that Russian forces had smuggled a cache of high explosives out of Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion in March 2003. > > Defense Ministry spokesman Vyacheslav Sedov dismissed the allegations as “absurd” and “ridiculous.” > > “I can state officially that the Russian Defense Ministry and its structures couldn’t have been involved in the disappearance of the explosives, because all Russian military experts left Iraq when the international sanctions were introduced during the 1991 Gulf War,” he told The Associated Press. > > The denial followed a story in The Washington Times on Thursday that quoted a high-ranking U.S. defense official alleging that Russian special forces had “almost certainly” helped spirit out the hundreds of tons of high explosives that went missing from the al-Qaqaa base. The newspaper based its report on an interview with John Shaw, the deputy U.S. undersecretary of defense for international technology security. > … Who the heck is John Shaw, and why would the Moonie Times want to piss off Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Jon\_the\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jon\_the\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jon_the_Geek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/255 "2004-10-28T15:39:57Z")
One more time: At least as far as I’m concerned, it makes little difference whether these explosives were stolen before the US military arrived at the site or after. Before Bush’s war forced the UN inspectors to leave, the explosives were secure. Sometime between when the inspectors had to abandon their duties and 2 weeks ago, a huge stockpile of powerful explosives, which the UN inspectors knew about, and had under seal, disappeared. Either the invasion made us less safe by not having enough troops to secure known sites, or it made us less safe by stopping the UN inspectors from doing their job. Either way, it’s gross incompetence, and the guy in charge should at the very least admit that someone screwed up, and fire said person. If he can’t bring himself to do that, we should fire him. He shows no sign of admitting any mistakes, so he doesn’t deserve a single vote on Nov 2. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/256 "2004-10-28T15:46:28Z")
> [@Jon the Geek](#): > > One more time: > At least as far as I’m concerned, it makes little difference whether these explosives were stolen before the US military arrived at the site or after. Before Bush’s war forced the UN inspectors to leave, the explosives were secure. Sometime between when the inspectors had to abandon their duties and 2 weeks ago, a huge stockpile of powerful explosives, which the UN inspectors knew about, and had under seal, disappeared. Either the invasion made us less safe by not having enough troops to secure known sites, or it made us less safe by stopping the UN inspectors from doing their job. Either way, it’s gross incompetence, and the guy in charge should at the very least admit that someone screwed up, and fire said person. If he can’t bring himself to do that, we should fire him. He shows no sign of admitting any mistakes, so he doesn’t deserve a single vote on Nov 2. But … but … Clinton got a blowjob and Kerry dodged the National Guard draft. I’m still waiting for the photographic proof that the stuff was moved in trucks as some previous drive-by poster citelessly claimed. Let’s hope it’s more convincing than Powell’s UN presentation evidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/257 "2004-10-28T15:56:23Z")
One lovely thing about all this… When the Administration and its supporters are reduced to flinging figurative poo at the problem in hopes of covering it up before anyone notices what it was actually about, you know they’re very, very nervous about Tuesday. What just _amazes_ me about this, and it takes a lot to actually knock me back on my heels after four years of this talking chimpanzee in chief, is that someone in the Administration actually thought they could get away with blaming Russia, an ally led by someone who’s ostensibly pretty warm toward the Bush White House, for this debacle. If this isn’t the perfect definition of “break with reality”, I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/258 "2004-10-28T16:14:20Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > What just _amazes_ me about this, and it takes a lot to actually knock me back on my heels after four years of this talking chimpanzee in chief, is that someone in the Administration actually thought they could get away with blaming Russia, an ally led by someone who’s ostensibly pretty warm toward the Bush White House, for this debacle. If this isn’t the perfect definition of “break with reality”, I don’t know what is. I posted on an other thread about this what came immediately to my mind when I heard “the Russian Connection” mentioned: 1. The writer of that nonsense didn’t know the Cold War is over or 2. He knows that, but he counts on it that his target audience has no clue about it and hence will jump on the old tried bandwagon “Those Cursed Communists Are At It Again”. I also said that to me point 2 is the most likely, since reflecting the complete out-of- thouch-with-reality simplistic ignorant mindset of the ones who still want to vote for a criminal like Bush. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/259 "2004-10-28T16:15:37Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > is that someone in the Administration actually thought they could get away with blaming Russia It’s like when Ralphie got his friends mouth washed out with soap in “A Christmas Story”. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/260 "2004-10-28T16:20:35Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > It’s like when Ralphie got his friends mouth washed out with soap in “A Christmas Story”. Except deadlier. (I love that movie!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=14)