# Al Qaqaa: where the roadside bombs come from **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023 "2004-10-25T09:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/381 "2004-10-29T17:49:26Z")
> [@braintree](#): > > So the next time you’re in a mood to accuse me of something, I want you to stop, squeeze your eyelids tight and actually think about what it is you’re saying. Thank you for taking the time to reply. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/382 "2004-10-29T17:51:41Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > This story is going to fizzle. The fact is, no one knows when the stuff was removed. I’d be very surprised to hear Kerry talking about this by the end of the week. Surprise! I guess the story’s lasted so long becuase of the constant lies and misinformation from the Bush admin and their cheering squad. Every excuse they make gets shot down quickly, and they have to use another day making up a new excuse, thus keeping the issue active. But perhaps they had no other choice, if they had actually admitted the mistake or bad strategy, it may have turned out worse for them. And for the record, regarding the reports that one of the networks was waiting until Sunday to break this story: I think that’s an incredibly sleazy thing to do and definitely shows a liberal bias for that network. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/383 "2004-10-29T17:52:29Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > **KidCharlemagne** , I haven’t seen the video. Did the U.S. Army Major address whether or not the site was still sealed upon his arrival or if it appeared to already have been looted? Does he think we retrieved it all? > > Did he say that the weapons (explosives) definately were destroyed? I stopped listening after the first few minutes because I wasn’t in the mood to untangle what was the most convoluted mistold story I’ve ever heard. It was comical. The Major wasn’t as bad as the spokesperson. You could tell that the press was really annoyed because it was impossible to tell what they said. It’s like the only point you could take for it was “We have no idea what is going on.” IMO, this press conference is just as likely to hurt Bush as help. ---
**Author:** ![braintree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@braintree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braintree)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/384 "2004-10-29T17:57:19Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Thank you for taking the time to reply. You know, I’m a sarcastic bastard but I try to admit error, even if the person pointing it out isn’t particularly pleasant. I must say, Simon, I’m impressed. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/385 "2004-10-29T18:14:37Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I stopped listening after the first few minutes because I wasn’t in the mood to untangle what was the most convoluted mistold story I’ve ever heard. It was comical. The Major wasn’t as bad as the spokesperson. You could tell that the press was really annoyed because it was impossible to tell what they said. It’s like the only point you could take for it was “We have no idea what is going on.” IMO, this press conference is just as likely to hurt Bush as help. The only thing I got out of that garbled mess of a press conference was a _claim_ by the soldier put on display, that they’d taken 200 tons of explosives out of Cacaland “on or about April 13.” Which of course, does diddly-squat to counter the **April 18** video showning the large amounts of explosives that were _still there._. Moreover, the poor sod made it perfectly clear that he “never saw any IAEA seals anywhere.” As **Monocracy** mentions, if this story is still front and center, they only have themselves to blame what with all the Bushit excuses and ‘explanations.’ Then again, I suppose that when one’s so used to lying, truth doesn’t come all that easy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/386 "2004-10-29T18:36:11Z")
And this just in, from the blogosphere… [http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10042037.htm](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10042037.htm) > [@](#): > > …Al Qaqaa was on a classified list of Iraqi weapons facilities that the CIA provided to Pentagon and military officials before the invasion, said the U.S. intelligence official. > > But when the Pentagon and U.S. Central Command produced their own list of sites that a limited number of U.S. “exploitation teams” should search, priority was given to those identified by exiled Iraqi opposition groups, he said. Al Qaqaa wasn’t one of them. > > “The top of the list was dominated by nuclear facilities and places where we expected to find chemical and biological weapons,” he said. “Iraqi exiles had a very heavy hand in determining which places got looked at first.”… You don’t suppose they mean Ahmed “Snookums” Chalabi? Iraqi patriot, CIA asset, and the Man Who Would Be King? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/387 "2004-10-29T18:44:33Z")
And this, thanks to Josh Marshalls _Talking Points Memo_, without which no citizen can hope to be well informed… > [@](#): > > …In a new disclosure, the senior U.S. military officer and another U.S. official, who also spoke on condition he not be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter, said that an Iraqi working for U.S. intelligence alerted U.S. troops stationed near the al Qaqaa weapons facility that the installation was being looted shortly after the fall of Baghdad on April 9, 2003. > > But, they said, the troops took no apparent action to halt the pillaging. > > “That was one of numerous times when Iraqis warned us that ammo dumps and other places were being looted and we weren’t able to respond because we didn’t have anyone to send,” said a senior U.S. military officer who served in Iraq… [http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10042037.htm](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10042037.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/388 "2004-10-29T18:50:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Al Qaqaa was on a classified list of Iraqi weapons facilities that the CIA provided to Pentagon and military officials before the invasion, said the U.S. intelligence official. > > But when the Pentagon and U.S. Central Command produced their own list of sites that a limited number of U.S. “exploitation teams” should search, priority was given to those identified by exiled Iraqi opposition groups, he said. Al Qaqaa wasn’t one of them. > > “The top of the list was dominated by nuclear facilities and places where we expected to find chemical and biological weapons,” he said. **"Iraqi exiles had a very heavy hand in determining which places got looked at first.**" [10/28/04](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/politics/10040891.htm) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/389 "2004-10-29T19:01:41Z")
As to the question of why such an utterly lame-ass press conference was mounted to accomplish essentially nothing… To establish a _prima facia_ case. (For those of you who had social lives during high school and weren’t on the debate squad, that means, essentially, a case that, on the surface, appears convincing so long as no rebuttal is offered…) The press conference was, essentially, content free. The good major, bless his heart, didn’t have anything to say, and he knew it. He was thrust in front of the press so that the Bushiviks could claim to have answered the charges. They didn’t, of course, but that’s not the point. Got two bits says next time _Hannity and His Bitch_ are on, Sean manfully asserts that the press conference totally blew Bush critics right out of the water, case closed, all questions aswered, time to move on to “some people are saying Kerry is a KGB robot…” They can’t mount a defense, there isn’t one. But they can mount a press conference, and allow others to pretend that a defense has been offered. Deniability lies in the fact that they didn’t say this answered all the questions, but if somebody else does, well, that’s not their fault, now is it? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/390 "2004-10-29T19:04:25Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > I’ve carefully re-read this thread and note that no-one has proven that teleporter armed aliens, allied to Bin Laden, the Chinese and survivors from the lost city of Atlantis weren’t responsible. Well, we can at least agree that the _last_ person who’d take responsibility for this is George W. Bush. The White House steadfastly insists George is not the responsible guy, and I don’t see any reason to disagree – I can’t imagine anyone more irresponsible than George W. Bush. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > The KSTP video is the smoking gun with fingerprints and DNA all over it. How will Bush and his apolgists explain this one away? The same way they always do, Pinky – fingers in ears, eyes squeezed shut, and a rousing chorus of “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU,” repeated _ad infinitum._ Look! There’s **Scylla** and **Brutus** starting up already! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/391 "2004-10-29T19:20:55Z")
Anybody have a transcript of the event? A video link? Audio? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/392 "2004-10-29T19:32:13Z")
_Ducky!_ ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/393 "2004-10-29T19:40:48Z")
I think this is it… if I’m wrong, someone please correct me. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/) (You will need to run it in IE6… it wouldn’t let me run the video using FireFox.) LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/394 "2004-10-29T19:48:16Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > I think this is it… if I’m wrong, someone please correct me. > > [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/) > > (You will need to run it in IE6… it wouldn’t let me run the video using FireFox.) > LilShieste Thanks. I’ll just use my handy ‘Opern Link Target in IE’ button that I added to my Firefox. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/395 "2004-10-29T19:52:37Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > I’ll just use my handy ‘Opern Link Target in IE’ button that I added to my Firefox. I don’t mean to hijack, but… I just recently started using Firefox (a week or so ago), so I’m still exploring some of the customizability of it. I had no idea I could do stuff to the context menu. 🙂 Thanks for the heads-up. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/396 "2004-10-29T19:54:52Z")
“ **as we** ’ **ve tried to understand this** ” _–Di Rita_ From th eabove linked press conference ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/397 "2004-10-29T21:21:15Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > I don’t mean to hijack, but… I just recently started using Firefox (a week or so ago), so I’m still exploring some of the customizability of it. I had no idea I could do stuff to the context menu. 🙂 Do a search of thread titles for “Firefox” sometime; you’ll get a bunch of threads with suggestions for customizing it. Try [Firefox Love](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=272849&highlight=Firefox) for starters. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/398 "2004-10-30T03:02:42Z")
**[Fate of Missing Iraq Weapons Unresolved](http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/special_packages/iraq/10051179.htm)** _John J. Lumpkin | Posted on Fri, Oct. 29, 2004 © Associated Press_ … by military estimates, a minimum of 250,000 more tons remain unaccounted for. Maj. Austin Pearson said his team removed the 250 tons of plastic explosives and other munitions on April 13, 2003 … … those munitions were not located under the seal of the [IAEA]- as the missing high-grade explosives had been. … Di Rita could not … say … they were part of the missing 377 tons. … March 15, 2003 - five days before the war started - and closes in late May, when a U.S. weapons inspection team declared the depot stripped and looted. … April 13, Pearson’s ordnance-disposal team arrived and took 250 tons of munitions out and later destroyed them. … April 18 … television crew … shot a videotape … which shows what appeared to be high explosives still in barrels and bearing the markings of the International Atomic Energy Agency. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/399 "2004-10-30T03:44:04Z")
But whither? The explosives were looted, that much we know. My WAG is that they were not stolen primarily for “political” reasons, but for economic goals. They might even have been taken by Iraqis wholly in sympathy with American interests and goals, especially our benign attitude toward entrepreneurship. We do _so_ admire a “go-getter”. Salient fact: at the point in time in question, there was no “insurgency” to speak of. It hadn’t yet developed. Granted, the looters might have had their eye on some _future_ insurrection, stocking up for mayhem. But I submit that they would have been more likely to steal the _other_ stockpiles of actual weapons. Plastic explosives are cool and exotic, but for the kind of skulking nastiness the insurgents specialize in, shrapnel is king. Besides, what could they do with it? Haul it to the central clandestine warehousing complex? Disperse it in thousands of lesser portions to thousands of secure locations? As well, if they’d taken it, they would have used it. But the improvised devices that are shredding our people seem to be, for the most part, a modified military weapon. Like the _other_ stuff at Al Kaka. Wrap up the conjecture: the HDX and RDX explosives were stolen for profit. They have been sold to the highest bidder. Some portion of roughly 300 tons of high explosive, I suspect the greater majority, is now on the open market. If we knew where it was, maybe we could buy it back. But by now, it has been parceled out to the various interested parties. Chechnyans can blow up Russians with it, Kurds blow up Turks, Palistinians, Israelis, Pakistanis, Indians… Perhaps as much as 600,000 lbs. And a pound can wreak havoc. Spread out all over the place, in the hands of wicked and brutal men of various agenda. So I don’t really think the Iraqi insurgency has the missing bangnasty. I think everybody has got it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/400 "2004-10-30T03:48:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But whither? Seeing bin Laden this evening got me wondering that too. Does anyone happen to know the cargo capacity of a 747? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=21)