# Al Qaqaa: where the roadside bombs come from **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023 "2004-10-25T09:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/401 "2004-10-30T03:52:19Z")
Carrying capacity of a European swallow times 10[sup]4[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/402 "2004-10-30T03:59:11Z")
A 747 Cargo can carry about 220,000 lbs, give or take (depends on version, how it’s equipped and outfitted, etc). Stealing one, landing it somewhere, and loading it up with explosives would be more than a little tricky, though. Although a few years ago a 727 vanished out of a Angola, and I don’t know that it’s ever been found. Most speculation is that it was stolen, re-badged, and flying for some tinpot dictator somewhere. But terrorists can’t be ruled out. A 727 can carry about 17,000 lbs. That’s roughly 50% more explosives than a BLU-82 ‘bunker buster’ bomb. However, the thin skin of a jet wouldn’t contain the pressure like the steel jacket on a bomb, so the detonation might not be as violent. It’d be a fearsome weapon, but it wouldn’t have anywhere near the destructive power as the collapse of the World Trade Center. Not by an order of magnitude or more. The biggest loss of life would occur if something like that were flown into something like an open-air stadium. It’s not going to level a large area. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/403 "2004-10-30T04:24:02Z")
**elucidator** : Cheney, otherwise known as the Congenital Lying Pig, has already gotten up on his hind legs (quite a trick all by itself) and said that the major refuted the charges, or words close enough to that effect to satisfy the assholes who follow him. Of course that he did nothing of the sort means nothing to this cowardly profiteer. (Am I being extreme? Heavens.) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/404 "2004-10-30T04:58:44Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The biggest loss of life would occur if something like that were flown into something like an open-air stadium. It’s not going to level a large area. You might be able to take out say Hoover dam with an HMX loaded 747, and I doubt that there’s a nuke plant in the US that’d take the hit unphased. As you said, the thin skin of an aircraft wouldn’t give you as much pressure build up as a steel bomb, but a plane’s speed (450 mph = 660 feet/sec) and momentum would contribute to a shaped blast. The detonation speed of the HMX (29,900 feet/sec) would also figure in there, making for a horribly complicated calculation. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/405 "2004-10-30T05:02:01Z")
I think the Hoover Dam would take that impact. It’s pretty dam big. But yeah, I’m not sure what the ultimate effect would be. But think of this - the U.S. purpose builds bombs for doing that kind of thing, and I don’t think they’ve got one that could destroy the Hoover Dam in one shot. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/406 "2004-10-30T05:06:08Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > … It’s pretty dam big… Drag him out and shoot him. I’ll swear out the warrant later. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/407 "2004-10-30T06:00:01Z")
I’m still in the multiple freelancers camp. This would allow for a fair amount of sneakiness when it comes to handling the stuff. If everybody in a few families gathered a several pick up truck loads as day, and if Cousin Ali knew a some foreign gentelmen who found these things interresting … ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/408 "2004-10-30T11:18:07Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I think the Hoover Dam would take that impact. It’s pretty dam big. > > But yeah, I’m not sure what the ultimate effect would be. But think of this - the U.S. purpose builds bombs for doing that kind of thing, and I don’t think they’ve got one that could destroy the Hoover Dam in one shot. [Hijack] When people look at Hoover Dam, they think that it’s only a little bit wider at the bottom than it is at the top. In fact, it’s shaped more like a two-sided pyramid. It’s 726 feet tall, but it’s 660 feet wide at the base. That’s a lot of concrete, over 4 million cubic yards, weighing in at 6.6 million tons - I believe the technical term for it is “a shitload.” [/Hijack] ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/409 "2004-10-30T12:36:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wrap up the conjecture: the HDX and RDX explosives were stolen for profit. They have been sold to the highest bidder. Some portion of roughly 300 tons of high explosive, I suspect the greater majority, is now on the open market. If we knew where it was, maybe we could buy it back. But by now, it has been parceled out to the various interested parties. Chechnyans can blow up Russians with it, Kurds blow up Turks, Palistinians, Israelis, Pakistanis, Indians… > > Perhaps as much as 600,000 lbs. And a pound can wreak havoc. Spread out all over the place, in the hands of wicked and brutal men of various agenda. > > So I don’t really think the Iraqi insurgency has the missing bangnasty. I think everybody has got it. I’d say it’s a reasonable assumption that a good deal of this is out on the open market, along with many of the other explosives and munitions that the DoD says Iraq is awash in. Whether it’s the HMX and RDX or not, there has to be a lot of serious bang for sale (at seriously depressed prices, too - that’s how the free market works) in bazaars all across the Arab world. Which brings me to my point. Wingers have long been saying that merely criticizing Bush’s handling of the war was “giving aid and comfort to the enemy.” Yesterday, the Bush campaign itself said so, when Bush campaign foreign policy adviser Danielle Pletka told Wolf Blitzer on CNN: “I’m glad to know that Michael Moore is giving aid and comfort to the enemy,” referring to Osama bin Laden perhaps having learned about “The Pet Goat” from Moore’s film. (Video clip [here](http://www.streamload.com/donnyd413/Blogclips/Moore_Pletka_Blitzer-.wmv).) Now if that’s giving aid and comfort to the enemy, what can we say about a war plan that made a sea of explosives available to our enemies, leaving major weapons stockpiles totally unsecured for months in order that they can loot them all the more thoroughly? I’d say it constitutes aid, comfort, dinner, a blowjob, and a free trip to Disney World. Since “aid and comfort to the enemy” is referring to the Constitutional definition of treason, it’s clear, _by the Bush campaign’s own standards_, that it’s time to try Bush for treason. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/410 "2004-10-30T12:54:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > esterday, the Bush campaign itself said so, when Bush campaign foreign policy adviser Danielle Pletka told Wolf Blitzer on CNN: “I’m glad to know that Michael Moore is giving aid and comfort to the enemy,” referring to Osama bin Laden perhaps having learned about “The Pet Goat” from Moore’s film. (Video clip [here](http://www.streamload.com/donnyd413/Blogclips/Moore_Pletka_Blitzer-.wmv).) Holy shit! These people really don’t really believe in democracy do they? Do they really believe the American people did not have the right…even the obligation…to see how the President reacted in a moment of crisis? ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/411 "2004-10-30T13:07:04Z")
On Tuesday, Aug. 24th Two Airliners were blown up shortly after leaving Moscow killing all on board. (as I’m sure everyone recalls since it was just before Beslan). [This article](http://www.detnews.com/2004/nation/0408/29/a03-256978.htm) says that the explosive that was found in the debris of those airliners was Hexogen. Prior to the airliners being blown up over 300 people in Russian were killed in various apartment bombings attributed to the Chechen rebels that were also done with Hexogen. Hexogen is [just another name for RDX](http://www.islandgroup.com/ExplosiveChemistry.html) . The inability/disregard/neglect of the American Invasion force in Iraq towards securing the stockpiles of explosives is going to have (and most likely already has had) a worldwide effect. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/412 "2004-10-30T13:15:40Z")
Here, by the way, is an e-mail I just sent the Bush-Cheney campaign from their website: > [@](#): > > I saw a comment made by Bush campaign foreign policy advisor Danielle Pletka on CNN where, in response to a question regarding Osama Bin Laden’s reference to Bush reading “The Pet Goat”, she said, “I am glad to know that Michael Moore is giving aid and comfort to the enemy.” > > This comment is totally inappropriate, especially given that it refers to Moore’s use of film footage of our President in a time of crisis that the American public has every right to see. I demand that Pletka and the Bush campaign both apologize unconditionally for this comment. Otherwise, I will be forced to conclude that it is more than just Osama Bin Laden who appears to “hate our freedoms.” ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/413 "2004-10-30T17:39:12Z")
**jshore** , good that you’re doing that, but this can’t come as a surprise, can it? The whole Bush campaign comes down to dissent = treason. Take a look at this beautiful nugget from the New York Post, from a story they ran as [_their headline story_](http://www.nypost.com/commentary/32733.htm) one day last week: > [@](#): > > Capt. Pete is not worried about Kerry’s outrageous statement “wrong war, wrong time, wrong place” because he’s stronger and braver than that. > But I sure am worried. > In my book, Kerry is giving comfort and succor to the enemy. And don’t forget that Tokyo Rose got jail time for it after World War II, and Jane Fonda, Kerry’s soul mate, should have during Vietnam. Headline story, don’t forget. Not even the editorial page; the front page.Absolutely boggles the mind. The technical term for these people, I’m becoming convinced, is fascists. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/414 "2004-10-30T17:46:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Now if that’s giving aid and comfort to the enemy, what can we say about a war plan that made a sea of explosives available to our enemies, leaving major weapons stockpiles totally unsecured for months in order that they can loot them all the more thoroughly? I’d say it constitutes aid, comfort, dinner, a blowjob, and a free trip to Disney World. > > Since “aid and comfort to the enemy” is referring to the Constitutional definition of treason, it’s clear, _by the Bush campaign’s own standards_, that it’s time to try Bush for treason. Taking also into account that both Osama and Iran wanted to get rid of Saddam, I see that the incompetence of this administration is astounding. Knowing that Iranian spies (buddies of Chalabi) (and probably also spies of Israel) gave us the false info that justified the invasion, I see that Osama gave the pretext, and he is now once again trying to lead the right in America to do his bidding. We have here an administration that was lead trough the nose and it is only saying: “May I have another? What mistakes? What mendacity?” Sadly, many Americans are being misled by the terror threat, and IMHO the current administration does not care if it was had, If they win the election it will mean that they don’t have to care for future “mistakes” of this nature, and Bush never acknowledging mistakes only compounds the danger we will get into if same “virgin combat boots” is reelected. Since I do not swallow the idea that the administration is dumb, the real treason IMO was that Bush and his cronies had a lot to gain from the invasion, both economically and politically. Osama, as Bush even said, is not important anymore, Bush and cronies need 4 more years to finish looting Iraq… … and the American people. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/415 "2004-10-30T18:01:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … what can we say about a war plan that made a sea of explosives available to our enemies, leaving major weapons stockpiles totally unsecured for months in order that they can loot them all the more thoroughly? I’d say it constitutes aid, comfort, dinner, a blowjob, and a free trip to Disney World. And that’s really it. The Bush defense rests in part on the vast amount of exlposives in Iraq. I’ve been reminded of the estimated [650,000 to 1 million tons](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7418-2004Oct28.html) of explosives, artillery shells, aviation bombs and other ammunition that were in Iraq. To date, we’ve secured somehere around 450, 000 tons of explosives. \*\* The question arises why haven’t we been able to secure the remaining 200,000 - 550,000 tons of explosives? \*\* If it’s not because we did not have enough troops, is it because we had too many tasks? ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/416 "2004-10-30T18:34:41Z")
It is because they were protecting the oil wells. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/417 "2004-10-30T18:40:26Z")
And for good reason. I note that when people talk about the many failures of the Bush administration, they tend to gloss over the fact that everyone thought Saddam would light all the oil wells, causing an ecological catastrophe and eliminating Iraq’s ability to build itself back up. That it didn’t happen should be to the administration’s credit, but instead it gets spun into an oil conspiracy. This whole explosives thing is overblown anyway. Is there any evidence that terrorists have lacked for explosives in the past? Explosives are relatively easy to make, and commercial explosives are readily available. Plus, Iraq is like a large munitions dump. The U.S. military has kicked in plenty of ‘residential’ homes and found crate after crate of explosives and other weapons. They could have landed a million soldiers in that country and not been able to secure every site. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/418 "2004-10-30T18:41:15Z")
> [@capacitor](#): > > It is because they were protecting the oil wells. What good’s an oil well if you don’t protect the pipelines? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/419 "2004-10-30T18:48:47Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > And for good reason. I note that when people talk about the many failures of the Bush administration, they tend to gloss over the fact that everyone thought Saddam would light all the oil wells, causing an ecological catastrophe and eliminating Iraq’s ability to build itself back up. That it didn’t happen should be to the administration’s credit, but instead it gets spun into an oil conspiracy… You lost me on that last turn, **Sam**. Saddam didn’t do something terrible, and that should be a credit to Bush? If he had done, should that have been something for which to blame Bush? I try to imagine the oil wells burning, and you here offering a blistering critique of The Leader. I try, but fail. And how might Bush have restrained Saddam? Threaten to invade? A stern letter of rebuke entered into this Permanent Record? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023/420 "2004-10-30T18:55:09Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > And for good reason. I note that when people talk about the many failures of the Bush administration, they tend to gloss over the fact that everyone thought Saddam would light all the oil wells, causing an ecological catastrophe and eliminating Iraq’s ability to build itself back up. That it didn’t happen should be to the administration’s credit, but instead it gets spun into an oil conspiracy. Come again? He did that in Kuwait because he was trying to fuck over the Kuwaitis. Let’s not forget that his invasion of that country was very much about oil, with the slant drilling being cited as a _causus belli_. I have no doubt that Saddam entertained thoughts of waiting out the Americans and reestablishing his power in Iraq (he still might) and didn’t want to screw himself in that case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaqaa-where-the-roadside-bombs-come-from/271023.md?page=22)