# Al-Quaeda Forces retake Fallujah
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [January 4, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894 "2014-01-04T18:20:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/1 "2014-01-04T18:20:55Z")
This is exactly what I (and many others, I’m sure) was afraid of.
> **[Al Qaeda-linked militants seize control of Fallujah](https://www.france24.com/en/20140104-al-qaeda-linked-militants-seize-control-fallujah/)**
>
> The Iraqi government has lost control of Fallujah to al Qaeda-linked militants, a senior security official said Saturday, after days of fighting.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/2 "2014-01-04T18:27:22Z")
Well, at least your guys are out of there.
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/3 "2014-01-04T20:50:51Z")
Why did we go to war in Iraq again?
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/4 "2014-01-04T21:57:10Z")
I seem to recall a speech about WMD, and the need to disarm Saddam Hussein.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/5 "2014-01-05T00:24:22Z")
> [@TruCelt](#):
>
> This is exactly what I (and many others, I’m sure) was afraid of.
Your title is rather misleading. “Al-Qaeda linked”, not “Al-Qaeda”.
The group seems to be primarily interested in increased independence of Sunni areas from the Shiite dominated central gov’t. Is that what you were afraid of?
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/6 "2014-01-05T00:47:17Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#):
>
> Why did we go to war in Iraq again?
To help keep China British.
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### Author:  [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/7 "2014-01-05T00:49:07Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> Your title is rather misleading. “Al-Qaeda linked”, not “Al-Qaeda”.
Which gives me the same feeling I get when it is reported that someone has been attacked by a “Pit Bull type” dog.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/8 "2014-01-05T11:12:43Z")
IIRC Some of the heaviest fighting was in Fallujah. A lot of guys came back with life long disabilities. I’m not sure what our casualties were. Fighting in Fallujah was house to house. One street at a time.
Wasn’t that the shit hole that hung some American contractors from a bridge?
I’m just glad we’re out of there. There was nothing we could have done to change anything.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/9 "2014-01-05T11:53:13Z")
It sounds like they are on the path towards civil war.
> **[Al-Qaeda militants in Iraq seize Fallujah](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/04/al-qaeda-iraq-fallujah-ramadi/4317125/)**
>
> It could take a week for government forces to push al-Qaeda out of two cities in Iraq.
> [@](#):
>
> “Maliki has taken a very serious and unfortunate step toward pushing a large percentage of the Sunni population to feel disenfranchised,” said James Jeffrey, a former U.S. ambassador to Iraq now at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
>
> Recently, government forces arrested a prominent Sunni, touching off a firefight that killed the lawmaker’s brother and some of his bodyguards. Security forces then dismantled a Sunni protest camp in Ramadi.
>
> Responding to Sunni concerns, the central government agreed to withdraw its forces from Anbar cities this week. But once the forces left, al-Qaeda militants surfaced in Ramadi and Fallujah.
>
> The fighting, the worst violence since U.S. forces left Iraq at the end of 2011, erupted just as a number of tribal leaders in recent weeks have been trying to work out a political compromise with al-Maliki’s government.
>
> “They were about to get a negotiated settlement,” said Sterling Jensen, an analyst at the National Defense University’s Near East South Asia Center for Strategic Studies. “For some reason, Maliki chose this time to go against the protesters.”
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/10 "2014-01-05T11:56:43Z")
At this point, I think it’s fairly safe to say that _any_ militia operating in an Arab/Muslim country, with an anti-government agenda, is “linked” to al-Qaeda in some tangential manner.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/11 "2014-01-05T12:02:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> IIRC Some of the heaviest fighting was in Fallujah. A lot of guys came back with life long disabilities. I’m not sure what our casualties were. Fighting in Fallujah was house to house. One street at a time.
It was also the place where we famously refused to let any males in their early teens or over leave before the assault, then when we attacked declared every male there an “insurgent” and killed them because if they were innocent they would have left. Plus we used snipers to kill people trying to help the wounded.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Wasn’t that the shit hole that hung some American contractors from a bridge?
American contractors in this case meaning Blackwater mercenary scum; murderers.
And, _we were invaders and conquerors._ It was both the right and the patriotic duty of the Iraqis to kill any of the invaders they could. Whining because our victims fight back is disgusting.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/12 "2014-01-05T12:30:13Z")
We went into Iraq to get rid of Saddam and assist in rebuilding the country. All those years of sanctions left the infrastructure in bad shape. A new government was supposed to get formed to lead. There was never any plans to stay more than a few years and we were only going to be in a supporting role.
That plan quickly got derailed thanks to US mismanagement in the early days. I don’t want to look it up now, but there was a group of expatriate Iraqis that were going to return home and start the new free government. That fell apart within a month or two. It was a stupid plan from the start.
Once the fighting started there was no way the rebuilding plan could be implemented.
The US made a lot of mistakes. A lot of good soldiers died and were maimed because of it. It’s a legacy we’ll have to bare for a long time.
I’m not sure what will happen if they fall into civil war. Iran may move troops in there. I hope we can stay out of it.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/13 "2014-01-05T12:41:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> We went into Iraq to get rid of Saddam and assist in rebuilding the country.
No; we went there to gain control over the oil and to begin the neocon’s wider plans for the region. Saddam was largely irrelevant; we would have still attacked if he’d died or fled the country.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> All those years of sanctions left the infrastructure in bad shape. A new government was supposed to get formed to lead. There was never any plans to stay more than a few years and we were only going to be in a supporting role.
We bombed and wrecked plenty of that infrastructure in the invasion, and wrecked more during the occupation. And we intended to stay there permanently, not just for a few years.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Once the fighting started there was no way the rebuilding plan could be implemented.
There was no “rebuilding plan”; the Bush Administration intended for the magic free market to take care of everything, and specifically forbade the occupation government from rebuilding.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> The US made a lot of mistakes. A lot of good soldiers died and were maimed because of it. It’s a legacy we’ll have to bare for a long time.
It’s a legacy that the Iraqis will have to bear, not us. And far more of them died than did our soldiers. We are the aggressors, not the victims.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/14 "2014-01-05T12:58:45Z")
I haven’t studied this issue other than following news articles throughout the conflict. The war is over now and its up to the the Iraqis to find a solution to their Sunni/Shiite problems.
Whats happening in Iraq now is a spill over from Syria. The Sunnis and Shiites are fighting there too.
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/02/israeli-study-of-foreign-fighters-in-syria-suggests-shiites-may-outnumber-sunnis/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/02/israeli-study-of-foreign-fighters-in-syria-suggests-shiites-may-outnumber-sunnis/)
> [@](#):
>
> Their data suggest that Shiite foreign fighters in Syria may actually outnumber those who are Sunni.
>
> According to the study released this week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Information Center in Tel Aviv, there are currently 6,000 to 7,000 Sunni foreign fighters in Syria battling forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad. The number of Shiite foreigners fighting on Assad’s behalf is estimated at 7,000 to 8,000.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/15 "2014-01-05T15:13:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> No; we went there to gain control over the oil and to begin the neocon’s wider plans for the region. Saddam was largely irrelevant; we would have still attacked if he’d died or fled the country.
>
> We bombed and wrecked plenty of that infrastructure in the invasion, and wrecked more during the occupation. And we intended to stay there permanently, not just for a few years.
>
> There was no “rebuilding plan”; the Bush Administration intended for the magic free market to take care of everything, and specifically forbade the occupation government from rebuilding.
>
> It’s a legacy that the Iraqis will have to bear, not us. And far more of them died than did our soldiers. We are the aggressors, not the victims.
You’re amusingly consistent.
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### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/16 "2014-01-05T15:36:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> I haven’t studied this issue other than following news articles throughout the conflict. The war is over now and its up to the the Iraqis to find a solution to their Sunni/Shiite problems.
>
> Whats happening in Iraq now is a spill over from Syria. The Sunnis and Shiites are fighting there too.
> [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/02/israeli-study-of-foreign-fighters-in-syria-suggests-shiites-may-outnumber-sunnis/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/02/israeli-study-of-foreign-fighters-in-syria-suggests-shiites-may-outnumber-sunnis/)
This is what I meant by “what I was afraid of.” We failed to include the religious leaders and negotiate a lasting peace. We also left them in the same condition re the majority of the breadwinners in the country having no options or skills except for soldiering.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/17 "2014-01-05T15:42:58Z")
A lot of mistakes were made in those critical months after Saddam fell. Paul Bremer the civil administer we appointed is responsible for some of the stupider ones. Stupid crap like abolishing the Bath party and firing all the appointees. Those people included the local fire chief and fireman, police chief and police, the mayor. Hell even the people that picked up the garbage were probably given the job through Bath party connections. You couldn’t get a job at any government level without Bath Party connections. Naturally the entire country fell in chaos. Then we also fired all the Iraqi officers and soldiers. Even the low level guys that commanded some groups of men.
The lack of a effective police force or Iraqi military gave rise to the militias. I don’t blame them. Somebody has to protect the local neighborhoods. Plus all the military pensions that ended and military guys out of work. Where did they go? The new militias were thrilled to get their years of training and service.
I hope this is being studied at the Military academies and other colleges. It’s the biggest clusterfuck in recent history. There was such a crucial slice of time when we had a chance at replacing Saddam and getting a new government in place. Guys like Bremer and other State Dept officials blew it.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/18 "2014-01-05T15:49:24Z")
Yeah, it’s Ba’ath stinking edit time out won’t let me change it.
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### Author:  [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/19 "2014-01-05T22:32:50Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> You’re amusingly consistent.
Unfortunately he’s also 100% correct. History will look back on this invasion as a crime against humanity.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/20 "2014-01-05T23:26:45Z")
> [@Fir\_na\_tine](#):
>
> Unfortunately he’s also 100% correct. History will look back on this invasion as a crime against humanity.
That’s not all he said. His batting average is about .200.
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