# Al-Quaeda Forces retake Fallujah **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 4, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894 "2014-01-04T18:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/21 "2014-01-05T23:40:09Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That’s not all he said. His batting average is about .200. Aceplace57 vs Der Trihs in this thread: Aceplace 0, Der Trihs 1 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/22 "2014-01-06T15:10:59Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Aceplace57 vs Der Trihs in this thread: Aceplace 0, Der Trihs 1 What the fuck are you talking about? It’s not like AP is being a Bush apologist. He spoke factually and DT is as usual speaking in hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/23 "2014-01-06T15:35:01Z")
I’ve been a critic of the Iraq war for a long time. I remember the news stories right after Saddam fell. It was obvious even then that there wasn’t any well thought out plan. Paul Bremer’s policies completely wiped out essential government services even at the most basic city level. The majority of the middle class were Ba’ath party members working in the government or military officers. They were wiped out by Bremer’s policies. Iraq has never recovered from abolishing the Ba’ath party and putting the middle class out of work. The middle class is the economic foundation of any country. Bremer worked for the State Dept and they took their orders from Bush. The destruction of Iraq is his legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/24 "2014-01-06T16:14:52Z")
It’s all a bit like Korea, where some of the fiercest and most protracted battles were over taking, being driven off, then re-taking the same hill… more or less because some general said to. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/25 "2014-01-06T16:49:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What the fuck are you talking about? … DT is as usual speaking in hyperbole. Which fact did you find particularly hyperbolic? And what books have you read about the Iraq War? I’ve read several and when I hear from apologists I wonder what informative books that I’ve missed they get their facts from. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/26 "2014-01-06T17:04:07Z")
The best book I’ve read on Iraq is, _Constitution Making Under Occupation: The Politics of Imposed Revolution in Iraq_. It goes very deeply into our failed attempt at recreating a new government in Iraq. It does a good job analyzing Paul Bremer’s decrees and the Coalition Provisional Authority. > **[Constitution Making Under Occupation: The Politics of Imposed Revolution in Iraq...](https://www.amazon.com/Constitution-Making-Under-Occupation-Revolution-ebook/dp/B009KSK2PQ)** > > Constitution Making Under Occupation: The Politics of Imposed Revolution in Iraq (Columbia Studies in Political Thought / Political History) - Kindle edition by Arato, Andrew. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets.... ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/27 "2014-01-06T17:29:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You’re amusingly consistent. I was there for a lot of the war in Iraq and I pretty much agree with him. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/28 "2014-01-06T18:43:24Z")
CNN has a good report. Crafty al-Maliki is spinning the truth just a bit. I’m amazed al-Maliki is still alive and in power. Running Iraq is a dangerous job. > **[Iraq’s Nuri al-Maliki tells troops not to strike Falluja neighborhoods | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2014/01/06/world/meast/iraq-violence/)** > > Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki told armed forces not to hit residential neighborhoods in Falluja after reports of weekend clashes there > [@](#): > > The current conflict in Anbar is not a simple matter of al Qaeda against pro-government troops, according to local officials, political analysts and tribal leaders in Falluja and Ramadi. They say al-Maliki is spinning the strife to his political advantage. > > These sources say al-Maliki is trying to cite al Qaeda as a pretext to crush Sunni protesters and is using the same tack to get international support for his fight. They say he’s trying to create the false impression that ISIS fighters control much of Falluja. > > ISIS has been working doggedly to exploit a security vacuum across Iraq. > > While there are pockets of al Qaeda-linked militants in Anbar cities such as Falluja, most regions in Anbar, including Falluja, are under the control of local police and Sunni tribes not aligned with militants, they explained. Fighting also has raged between these local tribes and the Iraqi army in Falluja. > > Violence has flared in recent days because of the arrest of a Sunni lawmaker in Ramadi and the dismantling of protest sites by the army in Falluja and Ramadi. ---
**Author:** ![Whammo72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Whammo72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whammo72)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/29 "2014-01-06T19:10:06Z")
on the plus side in the article I read “al Queda linked mutants”… see, it wasn’t mutants after all. There’s a plus side to everything. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/30 "2014-01-06T20:47:08Z")
> [@Fir\_na\_tine](#): > > Unfortunately he’s also 100% correct. History will look back on this invasion as a crime against humanity. Which one? the kuwait invasion, the Iran invasion? the wholesale slaughter of kurds? Historically, the region has a long and bloody history. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/31 "2014-01-06T22:16:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > We went into Iraq to get rid of Saddam and assist in rebuilding the country. No. I listened to the debate in the UK Parliament at the time and the sole reason for sending our troops was that Saddam had WMDs and could hit British bases. **Nothing about rebuilding the country**. Here is the speech by the UK Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook on the eve of the war. He resigned over the shaky reason for going to war. Some devastating points that he made: - I have chosen to address the House first on why I cannot support a war without international agreement or domestic support - The reality is that Britain is being asked to embark on a war without agreement in any of the international bodies of which we are a leading partner – not NATO, not the European Union and, now, not the Security Council - None of us can predict the death toll of civilians from the forthcoming bombardment of Iraq, but the US warning of a bombing campaign that will “shock and awe” makes it likely that casualties will be numbered at least in the thousands - Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term—namely a credible device capable of being delivered against a strategic city target. It probably still has biological toxins and battlefield chemical munitions, but it has had them since the 1980s when US companies sold Saddam anthrax agents and the then British Government approved chemical and munitions factories. Why is it now so urgent that we should take military action to disarm a military capacity that has been there for 20 years, and which we helped to create? Why is it necessary to resort to war this week, while Saddam’s ambition to complete his weapons programme is blocked by the presence of UN inspectors? - Nor is our credibility helped by the appearance that our partners in Washington are less interested in disarmament than they are in regime change in Iraq ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/32 "2014-01-06T22:29:31Z")
It kinda makes you wonder if all of that was worth it ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/33 "2014-01-06T22:41:04Z")
The reconstruction plan for Iraq was real. It quickly became impractical when the insurgency began. > **[Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Relief_and_Reconstruction_Fund)** > > The Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund (IRRF) was established by the US Congress on November 6, 2003. It allocated $18.4 billion to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure, damaged from years of neglect, sanctions, and war. > As of March 29, 2006, approximately $16.3 billion, or 89%, had been obligated and $11.4 billion had been spent. The fund has come under some criticism due to the slowness with which the allocated money has been disbursed, largely because of the time-consuming US procurement process. > [@](#): > > The Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund (IRRF) was established by the US Congress on November 6, 2003. It allocated $18.4 billion to rebuild Iraq’s infrastructure, damaged from years of neglect, sanctions, and war. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/34 "2014-01-06T22:48:31Z")
I wonder what the future will be for Iraq? Will it fall into a decade long civil war like Lebanon? The divide between the Sunni and Shiite regions of Iraq seems insurmountable. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894/35 "2014-01-08T01:25:45Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Which fact did you find particularly hyperbolic? > > And what books have you read about the Iraq War? I’ve read several and when I hear from apologists I wonder what informative books that I’ve missed they get their facts from. I haven’t read too many books. I prefer not to dwell on what I lived through. But if I have to pick one thing the whole we did it to gain control of the oil thing is complete bullshit. The US never controlled the oil, never attempted to control the oil. If we did we would now control the oil. Iraqi oil production was handed over to the Iraqis almost immediately. Of course while all the troops and tanks were there we forced the Iraqi government to higher Haliburton to run the oil fields and line Chaney’s pockets. Wait, I’m sorry what actually happened was Iraq gave those drilling contracts to China’s state owned oil company. But of course the US was able to get cheap oil from Iraq when a sweetheart deal was forced on them. Nope, Iraq sells most of its oil to China. Hell, if we had gotten oil out of the deal maybe there would have been some benefit from going there. Of course if there was no oil in the region no one would care about it. The reasons for the conflict may have been dumb but it wasn’t an oil grab. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaeda-forces-retake-fallujah/677894.md?page=1)