# Al Quaida Plot Foiled by, um, Somebody **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812 "2006-02-10T04:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/21 "2006-02-10T14:54:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What else do we have? > > It’s kinda interesting that Bush never bothered to have any underling [notify the city of Los Angeles that they’d been a target](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_re_us/la_terror_plot). > > And of course, testifying before the 9/11 Commission a couple years ago, [the FBI knew nothing of any such foiled attacks](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/special/v-pfriendly/story/203698p-175780c.html): > > (Hat tip to [John Aravosis of AmericaBlog](http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/02/growing-questions-about-whether-bush.html).) Hmmn… If the whole episode was still classified, then that would explain why they refused to talk about it, wouldn’t it? Also, it’s possible that the FBI weren’t involved. If the Malaysians passed this information through to the CIA or State Department, they may have been requested to simply arrest the subjects. I’m not sure if the FBI would be in the loop on something like that. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/22 "2006-02-10T15:52:52Z")
**Sam** - you missed one big political reason, that I think is _the_ reason: to kill the NSA wiretapping scandal. People are apparently having a hard enough time understanding that nobody’s objecting to the wiretapping, just to the lack of warrants. So this, [strike]Rove[/strike] Bush figures, will kill the issue once and for all. Nobody in the senate will dare to pursue it now - s/he’d look like they wanted terrorists flying planes into buildings! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/23 "2006-02-10T17:16:28Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The non-political reason: It could be that they couldn’t release the material until now because it would have compromised intelligence. For example, the unknown Asian person may still have been in place, providing useful information, so any successes had to be kept secret lest the enemy figure out who he was. Or perhaps the arrests of a bunch of operatives were done quietly so their contacts would think they were still uncompromised. Except he still hasn’t released any information; not one single bit of evidence that could be corroborated by investigation. The whole thing reads like a pitch meeting for the next series of _24_: Screeenwriter: “So we have these terrorists with shoe bombs, and they’re going to hijack a plane and crash it into a building…” Kiefer Sutherland: “THERE’S NO TIME! WE HAVE TO START FILMING NOW OR MILLIONS WILL BE FORCED TO WATCH RERUNS OF FULL HOUSE!” > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > To be fair, Bush is extremely modest: I don’t think I’ve ever heard him brag on himself or on his Administration’s accomplishments. It’s perfectly possible that the US was the driving force behind these arrests and that the illegal wiretaps were vital to the case and that he just doesn’t want to toot his own horn. I have two words for you: “Mission Accomplished.” Bush doesn’t like to toot his own horn like Courtney Love doesn’t want to violate the temple of her body with drugs. That guy toots like a train engine whenever he walks down the street. > [@alaricthegoth](#): > > I heard him say “Liberty Valence”–I figured the angel dust kicked in and he was having Jack Palance flashbacks… Minor nitpick, but as a fan of [The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056217) I feel it necessary to supply a correction: Lee Marvin played the titular villian. I believe you may be thinking of Palance in [Shane](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046303/), though he’s certainly played a number of other villians. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/24 "2006-02-10T17:54:54Z")
> [@Johnny Angel](#): > > According to the AP wire, Bush has given [some details of a successful 2002 thwart of an al-Qaida plot to attack L.A](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1598715). > > Probably you’re thinking that nothing but petty hatred of America and an inability to admit that Bush has done something right would make anybody raise cynical questions about this glorious news. But you know, it’s funny. I can’t help but wonder… Right, I read that Bush started declassiying this information a few weeks ago and released the story as an attempt to increase public support for his counterterrorism policies - all while the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence hearings are happening. It’s all probably just a coincidence though. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/25 "2006-02-10T18:11:09Z")
Hmmm. If Bush releases information, he’s just declassifying it. If Congress releases it, they’re leaking it. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/26 "2006-02-10T19:06:07Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > You don’t talk about successes; you don’t talk about failures; you don’t talk whether you have one going, or not; you don’t even talk about whether or not you even conduct them. I’m willing to give Bush enough benefit of the doubt to concede that there may have actually been a plot against the Library Tower. And that we were in some way involved in foiling it. That he’s bringing it up (however vaguely) now, contrary to the “1st rule of intelligence operations”, is purely a function of his position in the polls and the NSA Wiretap brouhaha. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/27 "2006-02-10T20:30:18Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Except he still hasn’t released any information; not one single bit of evidence that could be corroborated by investigation. The whole thing reads like a pitch meeting for the next series of _24_: > Screeenwriter: “So we have these terrorists with shoe bombs, and they’re going to hijack a plane and crash it into a building…” > Kiefer Sutherland: “THERE’S NO TIME! WE HAVE TO START FILMING NOW OR MILLIONS WILL BE FORCED TO WATCH RERUNS OF FULL HOUSE!” > > I have two words for you: “Mission Accomplished.” > > Bush doesn’t like to toot his own horn like Courtney Love doesn’t want to violate the temple of her body with drugs. That guy toots like a train engine whenever he walks down the street. > > Minor nitpick, but as a fan of [The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056217) I feel it necessary to supply a correction: Lee Marvin played the titular villian. I believe you may be thinking of Palance in [Shane](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046303/), though he’s certainly played a number of other villians. > > Stranger that’s a big oops. I counfounded them on acount of kid shaleen ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/28 "2006-02-10T20:45:45Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m willing to give Bush enough benefit of the doubt to concede that there may have actually been a plot against the Library Tower. And that we were in some way involved in foiling it. > > That he’s bringing it up (however vaguely) now, contrary to the “1st rule of intelligence operations”, is purely a function of his position in the polls and the NSA Wiretap brouhaha. you don’t have to waterboard w to get him squealing–just show him an approval rating below 40%, and he’ll tell you anthing… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/29 "2006-02-10T20:48:23Z")
> [@JohnnyEnigma](#): > > Right, I read that Bush started declassiying this information a few weeks ago and released the story as an attempt to increase public support for his counterterrorism policies - all while the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence hearings are happening. It’s all probably just a coincidence though. when do we become entitled to consider that our intelligence (even the questionable use of that term vis-a-vis the ameirican public) has been so terminally insulted that if it happens one more time our heads will blow off our shoulders like in that movie with the prisoners trying to escape… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/30 "2006-02-10T20:51:34Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > First Rule of Intelligence Operations: You Don’t Talk About Intelligence Operations. > Second Rule of Intelligence Operation: You Don’t Talk About Intelligence Operation. > Third Rule of Intelligence Operations: I Forget. > You don’t talk about successes; you don’t talk about failures; you don’t talk whether you have one going, or not; you don’t even talk about whether or not you even conduct them. > > And if, OG Forbids, you _do_ talk abotu them, you lie. Plausibly, deniably, lie. Lie in a manner that makes everyone else think you did something else entirely than what you actually did. How many years have to pass before those rules no longer apply to a particular operation? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/31 "2006-02-10T20:54:20Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Hmmn… If the whole episode was still classified, then that would explain why they refused to talk about it, wouldn’t it? That would be no excuse for failing to warn the mayor of L.A. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/32 "2006-02-10T21:00:59Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > I have two words for you: “Mission Accomplished.” I’ve got two words for you, and the first one is “who.” Can ya guess the second? 😉 Daniel ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/33 "2006-02-10T21:10:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That would be no excuse for failing to warn the mayor of L.A. hey, he has a tv like everyone else he can now consider himself warned… ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/34 "2006-02-10T23:27:07Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > when do we become entitled to consider that our intelligence (even the questionable use of that term vis-a-vis the ameirican public) has been so terminally insulted that if it happens one more time our heads will blow off our shoulders like in that movie with the prisoners trying to escape… It’s obvious that the release of a foiled attack story came during the surveillance hearings. Since you don’t really know me, how would you know my entire post was laced with cynicism … although I normally have a deep aversion to cynicism. I’m not faulting Bush, if I were in his shoes I would do the same to build my case. He’s covering his ass, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/35 "2006-02-11T02:34:59Z")
The fact that a threat still exists is an inconvienient reality that is sullying an otherwise pristine ideological landscape for some. Heads will remain comfortably in the sand and in the clouds until another attack occurs. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/36 "2006-02-11T03:00:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How many years have to pass before those rules no longer apply to a particular operation? It’s not a “time” thing. It’s a matter of security. If anyone who took part in an operation is still alive; if anyone who supported an operation is still alive; if anyone could conceivably still benefit from the info; if anyone could conceivably benefit from knowing that we obtained info (and knowing is a benefit in and of itself); any of these can combine to form a damned good reason why you just don’t talk about operations. You know that crap from WWII that’s still classified? It’s probably still political dynamite; like maybe we assassinated Churchill and replaced him with an American impostor. Politicians being politicians, will want an occasional bone to toss to the masses. In which case, the various national intelligence agencies dip into their haversack of Dead Ops., change things around to obfuscate times, dates, places, and methods, and say “Here ya go Mr. Pres. Tell 'em all about this one, where we stopped terrorists from pouring deadly bio agents into the L.A. reservoir system.” When in reality, they stopped some bombmaker in Tunisia from building a bomb for a terrorist cell in Sudan, that was going to hijack an El-Al jetliner and fly it into Mecca. Or something. Telling the Mayor of L.A. prematurely could’ve spooked the bunnies back underground, where we would have to again locate them, infiltrate them, and probably, again stop them at a later date. Telling the Mayor of L.A. could’ve spooked some staffer into leaking the information “for humanitarian reasons\*,” only to see L.A. dissolve into a bloodbath as everyone scrambles to evacuate, and don’t care who they shoot, maim, or kill to get out of town. \*And that’s ascribing more altruistic motives; it could be as simple as him calling his nice, senior citizen mom at home and telling her to get out of town. NOW! She calls Gladys and Henrietta, her dear, dear, friends, and tells them her Tommy, who works at the MAyor’s Office, overheard a call from the Dept. of Homeland Security, and now he’s telling me to get out of town, quickly. Now Gladys and Henrietta call two more friends each, as well as each and every one of their grown children. And you see where this goes: L.A. dissolve into a bloodbath as everyone scrambles to evacuate, and don’t care who they shoot, maim, or kill to get out of town. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/37 "2006-02-11T03:19:20Z")
\*_And that’s ascribing more altruistic motives; it could be as simple as him calling his nice, senior citizen mom at home and telling her to get out of town. NOW! She calls Gladys and Henrietta, her dear, dear, friends, and tells them her Tommy, who works at the MAyor’s Office, overheard a call from the Dept. of Homeland Security, and now he’s telling me to get out of town, quickly._ that’s more or less what just happened with NYC and the subway scare. Is it realistic to expect a hermetic seal on this kind of stuff? Probably would be more sensible to snatch up any relative at risk of any person with knowledge and get them out of the way proactively. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/38 "2006-02-11T03:23:22Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > \*_And that’s ascribing more altruistic motives; it could be as simple as him calling his nice, senior citizen mom at home and telling her to get out of town. NOW! She calls Gladys and Henrietta, her dear, dear, friends, and tells them her Tommy, who works at the MAyor’s Office, overheard a call from the Dept. of Homeland Security, and now he’s telling me to get out of town, quickly._ > > that’s more or less what just happened with NYC and the subway scare. > > Is it realistic to expect a hermetic seal on this kind of stuff? Probably would be more sensible to snatch up any relative at risk of any person with knowledge and get them out of the way proactively. As in, “All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others?” ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/39 "2006-02-11T03:25:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Telling the Mayor of L.A. prematurely could’ve spooked the bunnies back underground, where we would have to again locate them, infiltrate them, and probably, again stop them at a later date. > > Telling the Mayor of L.A. could’ve spooked some staffer into leaking the information “for humanitarian reasons\*,” only to see L.A. dissolve into a bloodbath as everyone scrambles to evacuate, and don’t care who they shoot, maim, or kill to get out of town. > > \*And that’s ascribing more altruistic motives; it could be as simple as him calling his nice, senior citizen mom at home and telling her to get out of town. NOW! She calls Gladys and Henrietta, her dear, dear, friends, and tells them her Tommy, who works at the MAyor’s Office, overheard a call from the Dept. of Homeland Security, and now he’s telling me to get out of town, quickly. > > Now Gladys and Henrietta call two more friends each, as well as each and every one of their grown children. And you see where this goes: L.A. dissolve into a bloodbath as everyone scrambles to evacuate, and don’t care who they shoot, maim, or kill to get out of town. Well, I see your point at the temporal crux, but why, after the fact of the thwarted threat now held to light, would the powers that be in Los Angeles not be notified that there was a real threat to their city, in order to put all first responder teams on alert, in order to make a well-thought out plan for dealing with such an emergency? Don’t you think the public officials at a high level want to avoid mass chaos? If local officials aren’t briefed on possible disasters, how can they deal with them if they occur? This just doesn’t make much sense. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812/40 "2006-02-11T03:36:16Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > As in, “All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others?” beats either leak scenario on the table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-quaida-plot-foiled-by-um-somebody/343812.md?page=3)