# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 13
### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/241 "2024-01-26T22:07:58Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#):
>
> I find the idea that a lot of the inmates of death row are junkies offensive in a lot of ways.
Many inmates in the prison system were IV drug users. I’m repeating a fact, not meaning to be offensive.
Cite showing an estimate of 65% of inmates had substance abuse disorder:
> **[Criminal Justice DrugFacts | National Institute on Drug Abuse](https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/criminal-justice)**
>
> Looks at the challenges with substance use disorders (SUDs) among people in the criminal justice system, and why treatment and follow up is important for inmates.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/242 "2024-01-26T22:20:16Z")
I get that a lot of them are.
That doesn’t make it less offensive to me.
Killing people because you couldn’t take proper care of them must be the dumbest, most costly outcome possible.
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### Author:  [@GrunthosTheFlatulent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrunthosTheFlatulent)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/243 "2024-01-26T23:57:56Z")
That last sentence is generally true of capitalism. The main ways that surplus population is dealt with are incarceration and death, either by neglect or judicial murder.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/244 "2024-01-27T00:57:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> a convicted murderer will kill again within the prison, or that he will somehow escape and kill again, or that a parole board will err in releasing him at some distant time. I would say the slim chances of any of those things happening
Thing is, murderers can plea-bargain down from first to second-degree murder, or even, depending on the facts of the case and the strength or lack thereof of the prosecution’s case, get the charges reduced to some degree of manslaughter, get less than life sentences, accumulate good time, and be paroled before they’re too old to kill again.
This varies depending on state law, but some people who kill can get out of prison after a shockingly short time.
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/245 "2024-01-27T01:16:36Z")
“ \> But what then is capital punishment but the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal’s deed, however calculated it may be, can be compared? **For there to be equivalence, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months**. Such a monster is not encountered in private life.”
Albert Camus
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/246 "2024-01-27T01:46:54Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#):
>
> Thing is, murderers can plea-bargain down from first to second-degree murder, or even, depending on the facts of the case and the strength or lack thereof of the prosecution’s case, get the charges reduced to some degree of manslaughter, get less than life sentences, accumulate good time, and be paroled before they’re too old to kill again.
but those are by definition not the who are placed on death row, so I’m not sure how this is relevant, unless your argument is that second degree murder and manslaughter should invoke the death penalty.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/247 "2024-01-27T02:21:52Z")
> [@Frodo](#):
>
> That would probably be the same as abolishing it, very very few people are going to opt for death.
Suicide rates are higher in prison than in the general populous. [Cite](https://nicic.gov/resources/resources-topics-and-roles/topics/suicide-corrections)
It would also be cheaper and free up the court docket. It’s a win/win for all concerned.
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/248 "2024-01-27T14:40:41Z")
Everybody has to sleep sometime, right?
After a person’s death warrant is signed, tell them that the next time they go to sleep, it will be their last. Then give them a comfortable room with soft, soothing music and lighting, and a very cushy bed and couch to enjoy.
Provide them Sleepytime tea, cookies baked by the warden, a teddy bear, and silky pajamas.
Once they finally doze off, observers (who been waiting in an accompanying room behind a two way mirror), will enter the room and administer the fatal dosage of whatever drug is necessary to end their life.
That’s my new proposal for a death penalty method.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/249 "2024-01-27T14:48:51Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> but those are by definition not the who are placed on death row, so I’m not sure how this is relevant, unless your argument is that second degree murder and manslaughter should invoke the death penalty.
I think his point is criminals can plead down to avoid the DP.
The only problem is if someone innocent decides to fight but is convicted nonetheless.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/250 "2024-01-27T17:29:31Z")
> [@Moriarty](#):
>
> Once they finally doze off, observers (who been waiting in an accompanying room behind a two way mirror), will enter the room and administer the fatal dosage of whatever drug is necessary to end their life.
I’m pretty sure that would wake the person back up.
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/251 "2024-01-27T17:38:19Z")
I’m also pretty sure their last 48-72 hours or so awake would be pretty damn horrible. Like being one of the teens in a _Nightmare on Elm Street_ film.
There is no way of executing someone that can overcome the psychological torment of an unwilling subject. There are, whoever, many ways to prolong it. Which, ironically, I believe many of the supposedly “gentle” methods of execution proposed here are particularly liable to do.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/252 "2024-01-27T18:38:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> I think his point is criminals can plead down to avoid the DP.
You have correctly sussed out **her** point.
No harm; no foul; I agree the username is misleading on that point. ETF were orange tiger boys residing with me when I chose the name.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/253 "2024-01-27T19:02:38Z")
> [@tofor](#):
>
> The problem the state has is not the legality of such things, it’s that doctors don’t want to participate or are barred from participating by various licensing boards or whatever.
I think it’s both- not just anyone can pronounce someone dead, for example. In most states, it has to be done by a duly licensed medical professional. So there’s a sort of ethical gray area for most doctors/nurses there, as well as whatever professional censure they might get.
So why can’t the State amend the laws to allow a duly appointed State official to pronounce executed prisoners dead in that very specific situation? That way, licensing boards and professional ethics are circumvented.
I know it’s kind of sketchy, but it’s no less sketchy than just finding ethically flexible doctors to do it for you.
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### Author:  [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/254 "2024-01-27T19:11:45Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#):
>
> You have correctly sussed out **her** point.
Mind blown!
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### Author:  [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/255 "2024-01-27T22:51:09Z")
This is just awful. I’m disgusted. Yes, I know he was a murderer and didn’t deserve any compassion, but society should give it anyway while keeping him locked up to protect the public. And I don’t think the thrashing was “normal,” whatever that means.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/256 "2024-01-27T23:03:49Z")
It means that if there had been no outside witnesses, and Smith had screamed in terror while vomiting, prison officials would have reported that he died peacefully in his sleep.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/257 "2024-01-28T00:37:30Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> > [@echoreply](#):
> >
> > That is also part of the concern. If there is too much positive flow from the mask, then the room may become dangerous to the other people in there.
>
> See my analysis earlier in this post; you can have a _very_ high overflow rate for the duration of the execution while still having only a very slight effect on ambient O2 concentration in the room.
And perhaps supplemental O2 could be piped into the room to protect against suffocation? But really, to me it’s pretty simple. If you’re going execute someone with pure nitrogen, it should only be done using a dedicated, air-tight chamber much like some prisons’ gas chambers.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2024, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/258 "2024-01-28T00:51:07Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> > [@gnoitall](#):
> >
> > I think you don’t want an airtight seal. You want to deliver nitrogen at over atmospheric pressure to keep out atmospheric oxygen, and allow exhaled carbon dioxide to escape, becuse hypercapnia would be the most likely source of respiratory distress.
>
> Good point. A non-rebreather mask would seem to be the right sort of thing (I know there are various other types of masks available).
When having nitrous oxide administered at the dentist I know the set-up has a “scavenger” system that pulls the exhaled gases out of the mask. I’d think a similar system could be used for nitrogen execution but again, IMO the solution is to perform the execution in an isolated gas chamber.
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> Others might make the calculation that these people are going to be killed anyway, and the overall goal of ending it completely is better served by not making it easy. I don’t fault anyone for this opinion, but I hope people are honest in their arguments.
I am completely opposed to the death penalty. But I can’t morally square making executions more gruesome and torturous as a means toward eliminating the DP.
That’s pretty nutty, evil shit.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2024, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/259 "2024-01-28T01:10:45Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> If you’re going execute someone with pure nitrogen, it should only be done using a dedicated, air-tight chamber much like some prisons’ gas chambers.
Wouldn’t that actually be a more prolonged, torturous method than a mask? However small the chamber, it would be full of breathable atmosphere while the prisoner is put in there and no doubt strapped into a chair. Then how would it go? How long would it take to charge the chamber with enough nitrogen to do the job, while the executee struggles and suffers? Oh, evacuate the normal atmosphere and replace it with the nitrogen? Meaning the prisoner would still suffer gradually during the process; or, hey! Pull a vacuum and then add the nitrogen so… Ah, yes, that’s got its own drawbacks.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/260 "2024-01-28T01:17:37Z")
> [@Skypist](#):
>
> This is just awful. I’m disgusted.
Yep. I fully confess that I’m ambivalent about capital punishment. To wit: There are people who should not be allowed to live. _BUT_… Having a State that kills its citizens is disturbing. I have compassion for people staring at their fate, because they are still human beings. I _must_ come out against capital punishment, even if I think someone should be dead. If I’m against it, then I’m against it. No exceptions.
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