# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 15
### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/281 "2024-01-29T22:57:51Z")
I don’t understand why they bother with a mask. THAT’s inhumane.
The room does not have to be air tight. Just over I atmosphere of nitrogen. Give them what they want, food, a TV or a bag of MnM’s whatever. Change the air ‘conditioning’ over to nitrogen, and buh bye.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/282 "2024-01-29T23:35:44Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> I am completely opposed to the death penalty. But I can’t morally square making executions more gruesome and torturous as a means toward eliminating the DP.
Again: Gruesome and torturous are two completely different things. Executions are barbaric. Executions that are dressed up to look like medical procedures are far more so. A bullet to the head looks exactly as barbaric as it is, and is hence at least honest about it.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2024, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/283 "2024-01-30T04:45:58Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> Both keep the person from re-offending.
Except when it doesn’t.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2024, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/284 "2024-01-30T04:50:20Z")
Some say the death penalty stops people from re-offending.
Did you know it also stops hunger and poverty, and cures cancer?
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### Author:  [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2024, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/285 "2024-01-30T11:44:18Z")
We all have a right to life and liberty. Somebody who commits a sufficiently bad crime forfeits their right to liberty. Somebody who commits a heinous crime (murder, usually) forfeits their right to life as well.
Somebody who doesn’t have enough food or money forfeits their right to…actually, no, they don’t.
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### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/286 "2024-01-30T12:02:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Some say the death penalty stops people from re-offending.
> Did you know it also stops hunger and poverty, and cures cancer?…
That’s right! Let’s think big, people!
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/287 "2024-04-11T18:19:54Z")
I’m resurrecting this thread because I recently heard and then read descriptions of what happened to Kenny Smith that I found deeply disturbing and that were not available by the time of the last posts (January 30).
The first is [an episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOn3wba8c-Y) of _Last Week Tonight with John Oliver_. At about 23:34, he starts commenting on the Alabama execution:
> One witness described the man who died as “someone struggling for their life” And another who’d seen five executions said it was “definitely the most violent execution I’ve ever witnessed.”
It was the last line that startled me. The most _violent_? None of the articles linked in this thread described the death in ways that led me to believe it was violent. It turns out it was, in fact, very violent. And Sith was conscious.
I don’t know if Jeff Hood, Kenny Smith’s spiritual advisor, is the man Oliver said had witnessed five executions, but [his account](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2024/02/19/alabama-execution-nitrogen-gas-witness-cruel-torture/72616304007/) is certainly harrowing. He says he was literally the closest person to Smith during the execution.
> I want to make something perfectly clear: Anyone who claims that this was [anything short of torture](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/01/23/what-is-nitrogen-hypoxia-kenneth-smith-execution/72310964007/) is not just mistaken, they are a dangerous liar.
Hood says that they had been told Smith would become unconscious within seconds. Smith was, in fact, very much conscious for many minutes during the longest and most horrific phases of the execution. I know this is the Pit, but I’m going to spoiler these excerpts because they’re so graphic:
> He started to look as if his head would pop off…
>
> As Kenny’s reactions grew more visceral and violent, the expressions of the guards started to shift dramatically.
> I [couldn’t believe my eyes](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/01/26/alabama-execution-nitrogen-gas-eyewitness-account/72362854007/). The gurney wasn’t supposed to move. Yet, move it did. Kenny started heaving back and forth. The restraints weren’t enough to keep him still.
>
> Kenny was shaking the entire gurney. I had never seen something so violent. Kenny’s muscles went from tensed up to looking like they were going to combust. Veins spider-webbed in every direction. It looked like an army of ants was running throughout every centimeter of Kenny. There was nothing in his body that was calm. Everything was going everywhere all at once, over and over.
>
> His face. My God … his face.
>
> I kept wondering if his bulging eyeballs were going to shoot right through.
>
> Saliva, mucus and other substances shot out of his mouth. The concoction of body fluids all started drizzling down the inside of the mask. Back and forth … back and forth … back and forth Kenny kept heaving.
> … the [execution was now going on for minutes](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/01/25/kenneth-eugene-smith-execution-follows-many-capital-punishment-botches/72328311007/). Kenny was very much still conscious. I could see the horror in his eyes.
I’m sickened. I don’t see how anyone could define this as anything _but_ cruel and unusual. I’d be interested in learning what others think.
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### Author:  [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/288 "2024-04-11T18:24:48Z")
I think a large segment of our country would think it was no cruel enough.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/289 "2024-04-11T18:26:57Z")
Has anyone figured out what went wrong? Was it because he was holding his breath and struggling? That response doesn’t seem like it could be from the actual nitrogen itself – it just doesn’t cause that kind of reaction.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/290 "2024-04-11T18:36:15Z")
> [@Wolf333](#):
>
> I think a large segment of our country would think it was no cruel enough.
If true, Then that is one more reason to feel ashamed for our country.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/291 "2024-04-11T19:05:49Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> Was it because he was holding his breath and struggling?
That may be true, or panicing. One reasonable argument against this form of execution is that unlike all other forms of execution (except the similar gas chamber) this form of execution requires active (if involuntary) participation of the victim. Rather than it being done to him, in the end, he does it to himself.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/292 "2024-04-11T19:29:34Z")
I’m not sure if anything “went wrong.”
> Alabama Corrections Commissioner John Q. Hamm said he thought Smith might have deliberately held his breath, but also said the state expected involuntary movements and the type of breathing that occurs with lack of oxygen.
>
> “That was all expected and was in the side effects that we’ve seen or researched on nitrogen hypoxia,” Hamm said.
From the accounts I’ve read, Smith was conscious for several minutes. Can someone hold their breath that long, especially given the agonies he was experiencing? (I really don’t know.)
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> That may be true, or panicing.
Can panicking cause all the symptoms Hood described? Hood said Smith was still conscious, though “barely” after the convulsions ended.
Also, if Smith WAS holding his breath for the minutes before he fell unconscious, wouldn’t subsequent executions be similar? Or would future prisoners breathe deeply to hurry the process?
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/293 "2024-04-11T20:23:16Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> From the accounts I’ve read, Smith was conscious for several minutes. Can someone hold their breath that long, especially given the agonies he was experiencing? (I really don’t know.)
about 11 min of holding breath for apnea diving records …
and in a way those reactions seem to have come from trying to avoid the execution - by holding his breath (not the execution as such) … akin to thrashing around before being strapped to the electric chair (analogy) …
does a big strong fellow managing to resist for 30min to be subdued and forced to the chair and then cleanly executed within one minute make it a 31 min execution process or a 1min?
FWIW: this question is not academic, but rather relevant in the context of “_cruel and unusual punishment_”
My personal take would be: give me all the nitrogen you can and give it to me fast … (I was always rather pragmatic and would prefer to die the way I lived…)
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/294 "2024-04-11T20:42:47Z")
OTOH, refusing to go gently into that shitty night may be an effective protest that provides a tiny bit of leverage for the argument that nitrogen asphyxia is cruel.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/295 "2024-04-11T20:45:38Z")
Ok. I see you’re interested in the mechanics of nitrogen suffocation.
Could you please demonstrate to the class how not to panic and doing your damndest to not breathe in the gas _that is supposed to kill you_.
This line of reasoning – he should just cooperate – is pure victim blaming.
(and providing cover for clueless torturering yokels)
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/296 "2024-04-11T21:56:11Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> OTOH, refusing to go gently into that shitty night may be an effective protest that provides a tiny bit of leverage for the argument that nitrogen asphyxia is cruel.
you - quite possibly - are a better person than I am … 😉
_let me die quick and painless and I am good with life_ … no, I have no plans for convulsing and foaming for the good of my fellow death-rowers
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/297 "2024-04-11T21:58:14Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#):
>
> This line of reasoning – he should just cooperate – is pure victim blaming.
> (and providing cover for clueless torturering yokels)
by victim, you mean the murderer?
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### Author:  [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/298 "2024-04-11T22:21:16Z")
At that point, he was as much a victim of a murder as the person that he killed.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2024, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/299 "2024-04-12T06:32:57Z")
No, I mean the victim of cruel and unusual punishment.
The idea is that we (the state) are better than them (convicted criminals). If you cannot execute someone with dignity and minimal fuss you (the state) have no business killing anyone. Doing so anyway makes you less than them.
Torturing someone because you cannot be bothered to organize an execution properly is some Kafkaesque Nazi nightmare shit.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/300 "2024-04-12T19:25:45Z")
Putting aside whether executions should happen in the first place, if they must be done, the clearly humane way is what veterinarians use, as I’ve observed with my cats and horses over the years: a sedative injection to put them quietly under, followed by a heart-stopper shot. No pain beyond the needle prick, no long agonizing struggle, over in seconds.
Yes, I know it can’t be done because the drug companies won’t knowingly sell their products to be used for that. More’s the pity.
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