# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/21 "2024-01-24T07:37:37Z")
What the fuck is wrong with America?
---
### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/22 "2024-01-24T07:55:13Z")
A little of half of the Americans polled favor capital punishment, and over half the states practice it; as well as the federal government. IMHO they’re wrong, but IMHO so is militarism, people who date someone just for quick sex or a free meal then ghost them, and people who think their hazard lights mean they can park wherever they want; but here we are.
---
### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/23 "2024-01-24T08:23:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> > [@Velocity](#):
> >
> > Many death-penalty opponents actually **want** capital punishment to be painful, so that they have more hay they can make about it being “inhumane.”
>
> Can you name any prominent ones?
I’ve never encountered that before, although it’s occurred in practice: soon after Wisconsin became a state, one of its citizens killed his wife and was sentenced to hang. Nobody really knew how to do it, though, and the public execution was so revolting that Wisconsin has never had capital punishment since. OTOH, Russia had banned it for a long time until the murder of Alexander II. The resulting hangings were also amateurish and revolving, but the Russians just promised themselves they’d do better. And they did.
The application of the mask for nitrogen sounds suspiciously done more for the sensibilities of the spectators than for efficiency and mercy for the condemned. Garroting people was quick and painless too, especially the fancy models that shot a spring-loaded chisel into the neck vertebrae after the set number of turns. But the look on the victim’s face made difficult viewing, and so was better concealed.
---
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/24 "2024-01-24T08:33:16Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> The timing is ridiculous, too. The murder was committed THIRTY FIVE YEARS AGO.
It shouldn’t have taken this long.
---
### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/25 "2024-01-24T08:51:18Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> The timing is ridiculous, too. The murder was committed THIRTY FIVE YEARS AGO.
I think this is key. Caryl Chessman spent twelve years on Death Row in California (1948-1960), and in those days, that was an unusually long time. Chessman used every appeal that he could, and employed every delay that he could, and ended up going to the gas chamber anyway. After _twelve_ years.
Now, we’ve got this matter, which has been going on for _thirty-five_ years. When do we say that enough is enough? The guy’s been locked up that long at least, he’s not going anywhere, he’s got to be in his 60s or 70s by now. He’s likely as harmless as a kitten, and while I don’t advocate setting him free, where’s the harm in letting him just stay there for the rest of his natural life? Don’t use him as a human guinea pig to test a new way of execution.
---
### Author:  [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/26 "2024-01-24T10:49:30Z")
The death penalty is barbaric.
---
### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/27 "2024-01-24T11:10:43Z")
The death penalty is not a deterrent either.
---
### Author:  [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/28 "2024-01-24T11:19:19Z")
\< i’m sorry, but bad comedy is how i deal with truly disgusting and disturbing events
that I have zero control over \>
.
.
.
**Sunday…! Sunday…! Sunday…!**
Only at **The Holman Prison Ampitheatre** in Atmore, Alabama
( Lovely Atmore, Alabama… _The City of Sisterly Love_ )
See the **One…!** The **Only…!**
**Nitrous Funny Chair…!**
See ‘The Old Man’ vs ‘The Grim Reaper’ in a quarter mile candle blow out!
Childrens tickets are half price with a paying adult…
and women without teeth get kettle corn FREE!!!
**Be There…!**
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/29 "2024-01-24T11:49:02Z")
I know you’re using dark humor has a coping mechanism here; however, you do remind me of something. I truly would not be surprised one whit if the pubbies were to try to implement public executions complete with a circus atmosphere and hangings.
---
### Author:  [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/30 "2024-01-24T11:59:54Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> I think this is key. Caryl Chessman spent twelve years on Death Row in California (1948-1960), and in those days, that was an unusually long time. Chessman used every appeal that he could, and employed every delay that he could, and ended up going to the gas chamber anyway. After _twelve_ years.
>
> Now, we’ve got this matter, which has been going on for _thirty-five_ years. When do we say that enough is enough?
I suppose we could just not allow the condemned to appeal, and execute them on the spot in the courtroom after the reading of the guilty verdict.
Or we could allow the “wheel of justice” to turn slowly, as it does.
If it had been 1 year, the complaint would be that they rushed through the trial, that the appeals were rejected, that they really should be taking their time in figuring this sort of thing out.
---
### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/31 "2024-01-24T13:08:50Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> When nitrogen has been used in assisted suicides, it has not been done using a mask. The expert who’s had quite a bit of experience wth assisted suicide said in the article that he’s nervous for the condemned man.
Can’t they find an old cyanide gas chamber somewhere and repurpose it?
---
### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/32 "2024-01-24T13:27:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> Perhaps his lawyers shouldn’t have suggested executing him that way, then.
As above, they prefer that to the ineptitude the state displayed a year ago but that’s hardly a ringing endorsement.
His lawyers are, of course, arguing he shouldn’t be executed at all, but failing that, they are arguing it should happen as effectively, as quickly, and as painlessly as possible.
And there are questions about the efficacy of their implementation. I question the implementation rather than the method - why a novel implementation versus something that’s already out there?
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> Personally, I’d be fine with bringing back the guillotine. Quick, painless, slim to no chance of failure.
>
> Not that a man who took $1,000 to whack an innocent woman deserves humane treatment.
Don’t forget, the Guillotine was invented and promoted as a humane means of execution compared to other methods used at the time. And it has since stopped being used for the same reason. Likewise other modern methods, which have all been promoted as more humane than existing methods.
Wherever you stand on execution, most people support making it as humane as possible. We want this to be about justice, not retribution.
And, in this case, the state of Alabama has decided to experiment with their own version of nitrogen hypoxia rather than go with something that’s already been tested and shown to work. And that’s where my primary objection stands. Experimentation on prisoners is historically much too correlated with other unsavory practices for comfort.
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> The timing is ridiculous, too. The murder was committed THIRTY FIVE YEARS AGO.
The alternative is the appeals process is shortened or eliminated. The delays are due primarily to the legal process playing out. If it were left solely to the discretion of local officials in Alabama, I’m sure it would have happened 35 years ago, which is problematic in its own right.
---
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/33 "2024-01-24T14:18:03Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> I find this execution particularly troubling. When nitrogen has been used in assisted suicides, it has not been done using a mask. The expert who’s had quite a bit of experience wth assisted suicide said in the article that he’s nervous for the condemned man.
If the N2 flow rate into the mask is higher than his maximum inhalation flow rate, then a perfect seal between mask and face is not required; he’ll be inhaling pure N2 with every breath, and will be rendered unconscious in less than ten seconds.
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> Inhaling one’s own vomit and choking to death does not sound like a humane means of execution.
There are countless videos on YouTube of people inhaling helium repeatedly until they pass out, and there’s no vomiting involved. Inhaling N2 shouldn’t be any different. Once he’s unconscious, he’s no longer capable of suffering. If he does vomit, it may prove distressing for observers, but he won’t be aware of any of it.
---
### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/34 "2024-01-24T15:36:30Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> rather than go with something that’s already been tested and shown to work.
I’m a little bit hazy on what execution methods have been shown to work, are deemed humane, and that are actually viable these days? Nobody wants a guillotine, electric chair, firing squad, or gas chamber, and lethal injection is questionable on its humaneness, as well as needing to be modified due to unavailability of certain drugs involved.
Also, what would “tested” mean? On a dog or something? We know how this works- the main issue with it is the presence of a mask, versus maybe putting the condemned person in a pod of some sort, or a sealed room/chamber.
---
### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/35 "2024-01-24T15:41:12Z")
> [@bump](#):
>
> Also, what would “tested” mean? On a dog or something? We know how this works- the main issue with it is the presence of a mask, versus maybe putting the condemned person in a pod of some sort, or a sealed room/chamber.
That’s my main objection there - the mask. That part is not really tested. If they were going to use nitrogen hypoxia, why not a pod or room or such and leave less room to screw up?
---
### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/36 "2024-01-24T16:05:01Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> The alternative is the appeals process is shortened or eliminated. The delays are due primarily to the legal process playing out. If it were left solely to the discretion of local officials in Alabama, I’m sure it would have happened 35 years ago, which is problematic in its own right.
That’s not how I took the post. I think what was meant is that after a certain amount of time, we’ve passed the ridiculous point, where any timely justice is possible. Suppose it went another 35 years. Do we wheel a frail 95-year-old into the gas chamber (just to inject a bit of reductio ad absurdum)?
If that’s not what was meant, that’s what I mean. By all means, exhaust all available appeals. But if it’s still going on decades and decades later, commute the sentence (is that the right word?) into life without parole. It’s beyond absurd at that point, not to mention a waste of resources.
---
### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/37 "2024-01-24T16:05:26Z")
I don’t understand the concerns with the mask. As noted, with a positive pressure mask it doesn’t matter to the person wearing it if there is leakage, and a little extra nitrogen in the air won’t bother anyone else.
Masks might not be tested for this specific use case, but they are widely used for cases where you want someone to breathe something.
---
### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/38 "2024-01-24T16:14:09Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#):
>
> **Sunday…! Sunday…! Sunday…!**
>
> Only at **The Holman Prison Ampitheatre** in Atmore, Alabama
>
> ( Lovely Atmore, Alabama… _The City of Sisterly Love_ )
>
> See the **One…!** The **Only…!**
>
> **Nitrous Funny Chair…!**
>
> See ‘The Old Man’ vs ‘The Grim Reaper’ in a quarter mile candle blow out!
>
> Childrens tickets are half price with a paying adult…
> and women without teeth get kettle corn FREE!!!
>
> **Be There…!**
"_Your ticket is for the entire seat… BUT YER ONLY GONNA NEED THE EDGE!!!"_
---
### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/39 "2024-01-24T16:32:30Z")
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> Masks might not be tested for this specific use case, but they are widely used for cases where you want someone to breathe something.
Agree. I’ve sat in a dentists chair for a procedure and worn a mask and breathed laughing gas until I passed out. If someone had then substituted nitrogen, I’d have expired painlessly. I’m against the death penalty, but this method strikes me as humane.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/40 "2024-01-24T17:05:24Z")
Now you only have to find a medical professional who doesn’t mind losing their license to fulfill the revenge fantasy of some troglodytes and you have a perfectly reliable method.
You are forgetting that the competent folks won’t help and the rest isn’t allowed.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572.md?page=3)