# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/41 "2024-01-24T17:08:23Z")
How much professional medical involvement does this need? Someone to pronounce death after it’s all over, I would think.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/42 "2024-01-24T17:09:52Z")
A medical professional to administer the gas.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/43 "2024-01-24T17:10:22Z")
> [@squeegee](#):
>
> worn a mask and breathed
The manufacturer of that mask will not allow you to use it for that purpose.
If you could just use medical personnel and supplies the whole this wouldn’t be so hard.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/44 "2024-01-24T17:11:53Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> How much professional medical involvement does this need?
For putting a snug mask on and turning on the nitrogen? None, really.
But for administration of lethal meds, you need a pharmaceutical firm willing to have their drugs used to kill. And despite a history of nasty behavior by pharmaceutical firms, few such modern drug companies want that reputation.
Also, you need someone capable of starting an IV and pushing the drug. Many states require that if a person is giving IV drugs, they be certified or licensed. And using a drug to kill someone (especially against their will) would violate most license/certification requirements.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/45 "2024-01-24T17:11:58Z")
There is a reason these yokels cannot reliably kill somebody.
Everyone who actually learned anything about any of this in school swore an oath to not do harm.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/46 "2024-01-24T17:13:26Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#):
>
> Everyone who actually learned anything about any of this in school swore an oath to not do harm.
‘Primum non nocere’ was one of the first things I learned in med school. Along with the fact that we’re there to serve the patient’s legitimate medical needs, and only with their consent.
I suppose one could start a ‘professional executioner’ exemption but I think killing people as a routine profession would really damage the mind and soul of said individual.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/47 "2024-01-24T17:18:27Z")
No medical professional should touch this process, obviously. My question is, does any medical practitioner have to? AFAIK, there’s no medically invasive procedure involved; merely strap a mask over the victim’s face and turn on the gas.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/48 "2024-01-24T17:21:40Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#):
>
> There is a reason these yokels cannot reliably kill somebody.
Yeah, because the methods they’re using are complicated. The method proposed is what we expect every Boeing passenger to be able to manage **after** the door flies off the plane.
“Fit the mask over your face and breathe normally”
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/49 "2024-01-24T17:23:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> Fit the mask over your face
Well, I hope the Alabama process doesn’t require the condemned to apply their own mask. **That** would be remarkably cruel, even considering the context.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/50 "2024-01-24T17:24:17Z")
I’m not sure Alabama still has a gas chamber. Only six states still allow executions by gas chamber, Arizona, California, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, and Wyoming. I expect most of the others have repurposed the chamber, but who knows?
I just don’t know what to think about this as a method of execution. On the one hand, Sarco pods are supposed to be a gentle form of assisted suicide. On the other hand, according to [this CBS News article](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-is-nitrogen-hypoxia-alabama-execution-kenneth-eugene-smith-death-row-untested-controversial/#:~:text=But%20no%20execution%20has%20ever,of%20others%20in%20the%20room.), veterinarians refuse to use nitrogen to euthanize animals because of its “distressing effects” and danger to humans in the vicinity. And in a series of bulletins, the US Chemical Safety Board, has warned that
> when enough nitrogen is introduced to deplete oxygen in the air to less than 10%, effects on the human body can be lethal, potentially causing “inability to move, loss of consciousness, convulsions” and death.
Death is, of course, the point. Convulsions are not.
The same article says
> Research has shown that when oxygen levels in the air are down to around 12.5%, humans can experience “impaired respiration that may cause permanent heart damage” along with nausea, vomiting and “very poor judgment and coordination.”
Maybe the question we should ask is this: If the troubling effects of nitrogen occur after loss of consciousness, is it still cruel and unusual?
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/51 "2024-01-24T17:24:49Z")
If you do you’ll be sued 7 ways from Sunday.
- you used the mask improperly.
- you used the gas in a dangerous fashion.
- you administered a sedative without a license.
In short you’ll have trouble making much money, no insurance will want to come near you.
Doesn’t seem like a fun career.
Do you think this attracts quiet levelheaded professionals or does this more sound like a job for conmen? (Who simply don’t care if they fuck it up)
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/52 "2024-01-24T17:24:59Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> That’s my main objection there - the mask. That part is not really tested. If they were going to use nitrogen hypoxia, why not a pod or room or such and leave less room to screw up?
I might be wrong, but I think the person being executed might be supposed to be able to have a religious practitioner of their choice in the room with them.
– ah. I think I’m right:
> **[Spiritual advisers offering final comfort in execution rooms](https://apnews.com/article/oklahoma-state-government-missouri-legal-proceedings-religion-dbc253bef85af688a63a42a836e00028)**
>
> For decades, Missouri executions played out in similar fashion: An inmate was strapped to a gurney in a drab room, alone except for the eyes of witnesses staring through thick glass as unidentified executioners administered the lethal chemical from...
> [A Supreme Court ruling] last March requires states to allow spiritual advisers to join condemned inmates in their final moments, where they can speak together and even touch.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/53 "2024-01-24T17:25:50Z")
Again:
Who is going to provide the mask?
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/54 "2024-01-24T17:28:43Z")
Do you mean, “who already provided the mask”? Because the impression I get is that everything is ready already.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/55 "2024-01-24T17:31:07Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#):
>
> Who is going to provide the mask?
Amazon? Looks like oxygen masks cost about $3 a piece.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/56 "2024-01-24T17:31:32Z")
Is this really experimenting?
I thought the effects of nitrogen are pretty well known.
I am not arguing for the death penalty. I just wonder if this is really an experiment?
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/57 "2024-01-24T17:34:28Z")
The apparatus is unproven. Most historical examples of nitrogen asphyxia are full-immersion, but this process isn’t. (It would be if they used a gas chamber.)
And, as a witnessed method of taking a human life, it’s unknown how distressing the effects of asphyxiation will appear to observers. (E.g., convulsions, sounds of distress, etc.)
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/58 "2024-01-24T17:34:38Z")
The trouble with being the state is that you have to do things properly.
You need a producer of masks to sign off on this use case. Using any gas that isn’t cleared for medical use is quickly going into cruel and unusual territory and using medical supplies is a non starter.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/59 "2024-01-24T17:36:16Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#):
>
> The trouble with being the state is that you have to do things properly.
The lucky thing about being the state is that **you** decide what is “doing things properly”.
Supply chains are a practical weakness to most execution methods, but states have managed to overcome those over and over.
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### Author:  [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/60 "2024-01-24T17:41:07Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> Amazon? Looks like oxygen masks cost about $3 a piece.
You’d likely need a better one than that if you want to be sure you have an airtight seal. You’d also have to make sure it’s properly fitted. As with all things in this area, you can certainly leave it to someone with no medical training or experience and odds are it’ll work out fine, but it greatly increases the chance they’ll fuck it up.
As a medical professional, I object to making execution look like a medical procedure. Because it isn’t one. I think they should stick to the firing squad or the guillotine, not because it’s bloodier or more shocking, but because it makes the line between execution and medical practice that much sharper.
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