# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/61 "2024-01-24T17:44:12Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#):
>
> You’d likely need a better one than that if you want to be sure you have an airtight seal
I think you don’t want an airtight seal. You want to deliver nitrogen at over atmospheric pressure to keep out atmospheric oxygen, and allow exhaled carbon dioxide to escape, becuse hypercapnia would be the most likely source of respiratory distress. The only way this execution method succeeds and becomes acceptable to anyone is if it’s discernable less distressing and more reliable than current methods.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/62 "2024-01-24T17:46:01Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> Most historical examples of nitrogen asphyxia are full-immersion, but this process isn’t.
Does nitrogen enter the body though pores or something? If the mask is properly fitted, and has pure nitrogen gas entering it, in a generous enough amount, the person is going to die.
Not to say it’s 100% foolproof, no method of execution is 100% foolproof. I don’t see any reason to think it’s any less reliable than other methods. Masks are a known technology, nitrogen is cheap and readily available. Prior experience with deaths from nitrogen exposure suggest that it is not obviously violent or painful.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/63 "2024-01-24T17:46:02Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> The lucky thing about being the state is that **you** decide what is “doing things properly”.
And the unfortunate thing of being in a democracy and living under the rule of law is that other people also get a vote and in the end a judge has to approve stuff.
Hence “doing it properly”.
If it was acceptable to just toss people in a wood chipper we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/64 "2024-01-24T17:48:47Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> The lucky thing about being the state is that **you** decide what is “doing things properly”.
“Oh, pardon me.”
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/65 "2024-01-24T17:50:02Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> If the mask is properly fitted, and has pure nitrogen gas entering it, in a generous enough amount, the person is going to die.
They couldn’t find a vein to inject him a year ago (that or maybe they couldn’t get it seated properly) and this is the latest attempt using a different method.
Let’s say there’s not a lot of confidence that the state of Alabama is capable of “properly” doing a lot of things.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/66 "2024-01-24T17:50:59Z")
Well, so far the people of Alabama voted in the people who passed the law authorizing this, and the courts already approved by allowing the execution proceed.
So those safeguards don’t appear to have forced anyone to do anything right.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/67 "2024-01-24T17:55:41Z")
Leaving us to point and laugh when these yokels fail.
Again.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/68 "2024-01-24T17:56:29Z")
I guess you take whatever comfort you can.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/69 "2024-01-24T17:57:46Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> Let’s say there’s not a lot of confidence that the state of Alabama is capable of “properly” doing a lot of things.
This is kind of the SharkBite of execution methods. For those times when you’re too unskilled to do the job like a pro.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/70 "2024-01-24T18:03:17Z")
And, ultimately, why this approach will be harder to fight than most. It seems to be simple and low-demand in terms of material and professional participation. If it turns out that death under this procedure isn’t more subjectively cruel\* than lethal injection, it will be harder to effectively oppose.
\*“Execution is always cruel” is a valid point of view, but obviously it’s not sufficient to swing the argument. There’s going to be a subjective continuum of cruelty and below a certain undefined threshold of suffering enough people are going to find it acceptable, and therefore it will be accepted. They may be bloodthirsty primitives but they vote and their opinion counts.
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### Author:  [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/71 "2024-01-24T18:33:04Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> As above, they prefer that to the ineptitude the state displayed a year ago but that’s hardly a ringing endorsement.
One fo the arguments for lethal injection being cruel and unusual is the history of staff having trouble getting a good vein. Sometimes it’s because the inmate’s veins are shot to hell from drug use; other times it is indeed incompetence. There are websites that list botched execution attempts;I will not seek them out (having read some in the past).
Simpler and cheaper to just leave these people locked up for life with no possibility of parole. It avoids a number of issues - including botched executions, inadvertent execution of innocent people, and the rather mind-jarring moral conundrum of “I’m a good person, so it’s ok to kill someone”. I don’t think I could ever FORGIVE someone who murdered a loved one, but killing the murderer does not bring the victim back. If you are happy that someone will die, you’re as messed up as they are.
I’m also pretty sure it’s illegal to experiment on humans without their express consent. The upcoming murder-by-the-state surely qualifies.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/72 "2024-01-24T18:44:33Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> I’m also pretty sure it’s illegal to experiment on humans without their express consent
If this argument is raised in the Federal court hearing this case, we will see if the actual law agrees.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/73 "2024-01-24T18:51:41Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> I don’t think I could ever FORGIVE someone who murdered a loved one, but killing the murderer does not bring the victim back.
Neither does locking them up for life.
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### Author:  [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/74 "2024-01-24T19:03:04Z")
I’ve voluntarily inhaled NO2 at a variety of parties.
It is sold as a safe legal drug, and sure, it is indeed legal in most places.
It is not safe, for a number of reasons, including the intoxicated can injure themselves. Ideally it would be sold in balloons, because the alternative would be the users basically freezing their mouth and throat due to the extreme cold gas.
It is also a deleriant hallucinogen. Delerium is not fun. It is like a fever dream. Horrid experience,
I’ve had my share. Would not recommend.
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### Author:  [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/75 "2024-01-24T19:10:49Z")
> [@Monty](#):
>
> I know you’re using dark humor has a coping mechanism here; however, you do remind me of something. I truly would not be surprised one whit if the pubbies were to try to implement public executions complete with a circus atmosphere and hangings.
Most of their ideas seem to come from bad Clint Eastwood movies.
( 'Hang ‘Em High’ (1968) )
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### Author:  [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/76 "2024-01-24T19:12:45Z")
> [@scudsucker](#):
>
> I’ve voluntarily inhaled NO2 at a variety of parties.
That’s not the same as the pure nitrogen under discussion. You definitely feel NO2 (nitrous oxide); I tend to feel a brief panic, then utter relaxation, when I have it at the dentist’s office.
(rereading what you were replying to): Re substituting for pure nitrogen in the dentist’s office:hard to tell. If they got me relaxed enough with NO2, then added pure nitrogen to the mix instead of oxygen, who knows what would happen. On one occasion, I think the mix had too low a level of oxygen, and I definitely felt air hunger - I could not rouse myelf enough to raise a hand and remove the nasal mask, which in hindsight is rather frightening - but I was able to breathe through my mouth every couple of breaths. There are documented cases of people overdosing on NO2 and suffocating (one happened in my college town; another was mentioned here on the boards a while back).
Doing something like that to the prisoner might work, but is REALLY getting into experimental territory. Then again, Alabama has a history of impermissible human experimentation (to be fair, I think the Tuskeegee Experiment was federal, not state).
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Neither does locking them up for life.
True - but if the choices are “pull the switch” versus “throw away the key”, I vote for door number 2. Both keep the person from re-offending.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/77 "2024-01-24T19:57:33Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> That’s not the same as the pure nitrogen under discussion. You definitely feel NO2 (nitrous oxide); I tend to feel a brief panic, then utter relaxation, when I have it at the dentist’s office.
Correct. That said, I knew a guy who died from NO2. The found him in his car with over 100 “whippit” cannisters.
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### Author:  [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/78 "2024-01-24T20:11:03Z")
Would that the DP could just be abolished somehow. Of course the DP enthusiasts would be angry, but perhaps being reminded that life is cheaper than death could ease their suffering. Surely other countries had to deal with DP proponents when they abolished it and have survived somehow.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/79 "2024-01-24T20:53:12Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> And, as a witnessed method of taking a human life, it’s unknown how distressing the effects of asphyxiation will appear to observers. (E.g., convulsions, sounds of distress, etc.)
The guillotine really is pretty humane, but it results in a hell of a show for observers.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/80 "2024-01-24T21:40:37Z")
Yeah. That’s why thia whole mess is so subjective and inconsistent. What a member of the voting public finds acceptable is all over the place.
There are undoubtedly many who think this process is too humane, for whom cruelty should be the point. An atavistic and bloodthirsty bunch that forms the extreme.
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