# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/81 "2024-01-24T21:44:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> in a generous enough amount, the person is going to die.
>
> Not to say it’s 100% foolproof, no method of execution is 100% foolproof. I don’t see any reason to think it’s any less reliable than other methods. Masks are a known technology, nitrogen is cheap and readily available. Prior experience with deaths from nitrogen exposure suggest that it is not obviously violent or painful.
There isn’t any question that if a person breathes 100% N2 for a few minutes they will become dead, the question is are they being tortured prior to becoming dead. N2 asphyxiation can involve vomiting and convulsions, and that may be torture.
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> Sometimes it’s because the inmate’s veins are shot to hell from drug use; other times it is indeed incompetence
The problem is that the people installing the IV line are not medical professionals. They tend to be corrections officers with a little bit of training in placing an IV. A problem in Alabama is that they execution has to occur within a set period of time, and if they can’t get a line set during that time, then it is halted. Also, poorly setting an IV is definitely torture.
The medical community in general opposes executions, and refuses to treat it as a medical procedure, which is why there aren’t doctors involved in the preparation. They can’t get doctors or other people in the know to help come up with guidelines for an N2 execution.
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/82 "2024-01-24T22:29:01Z")
> [@echoreply](#):
>
> N2 asphyxiation can involve vomiting and convulsions, and that may be torture.
The only place I’ve seen vomiting referenced has been in arguments against this case. It can certainly be a side effect of nitrous oxide or generally _low_ oxygen levels, but I haven’t seen it as an impact of _no_ oxygen until the current debate.
Maybe it is, but I also wonder if opponents are pushing a narrative that isn’t 100% accurate. (And I get it, I am absolutely opposed to the death penalty in all forms, but we still need to use accurate arguments.)
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### Author:  [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/83 "2024-01-24T22:46:56Z")
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> The only place I’ve seen vomiting referenced has been in arguments against this case
My cite is an [NPR podcast from Monday](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/22/1198910123/alabama-to-use-untested-execution-method-this-week). It did come across as reporting on why this execution is so controversial as opposed to why this execution is wrong (anti) or why it needs to be done in some fashion (pro). So not overtly biased, but I don’t know what their sources were. I could be misremembering, though.
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/84 "2024-01-24T23:14:48Z")
All my training regarding simple asphyxiant gases like nitrogen and helium were all the same. That as long as there is no build up of carbon dioxide you do not feel that you are not getting enough or any oxygen until it is too late and your body is on the floor. If you’re lucky you’ll be spotted and pulled out in time, but don’t count on it. Which is one of many reasons why confined space entry is dangerous, why all NMR rooms are fitted with oxygen sensors, and so on.
I think it’s fair to be totally against the death penalty. I think it’s fair to be generally against the death penalty with some exceptions. But I’m tired of reading arguments from people against this execution method that are lies.
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### Author:  [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/85 "2024-01-24T23:20:24Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> Masks are a known technology
There are masks, and there are masks.
A lot of masks used in a medical setting are not intended to completely isolate the patient from the surrounding atmosphere. Even a non-rebreather mask is not perfect. A more basic mask - the sort that simply uses a tube (to the oxygen tank) and an elastic strap around the head - will really not do the job. A CPAP-style would likely suffice, if properly fitted. Even more effective would be something like a firefighter wears, that is intended to prevent inhalation of smoke etc.
I have very little faith in prison officials choosing the correct mask type, or in using it correctly.
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### Author:  [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/86 "2024-01-24T23:29:39Z")
Is the condemned man’s head going to be restrained in some way? What would prevent him from trying to shake the mask off his face?
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/87 "2024-01-24T23:31:55Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> A more basic mask - the sort that simply uses a tube (to the oxygen tank) and an elastic strap around the head - will really not do the job. A CPAP-style would likely suffice, if properly fitted. Even more effective would be something like a firefighter wears, that is intended to prevent inhalation of smoke etc.
What are you basing this on? Positive-flow masks do not need to be air-tight.
Even if they need something better than a $3 mask, those are trivially easy to buy and really aren’t that hard to fit.
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### Author:  [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/88 "2024-01-24T23:43:50Z")
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> What are you basing this on? Positive-flow masks do not need to be air-tight
That is also part of the concern. If there is too much positive flow from the mask, then the room may become dangerous to the other people in there.
What I’ve not seen mentioned at all, is why can’t any other people in the room have their own oxygen supplies? Would a simple oxygen bottle and nasal cannula be enough to ensure they have an adequate oxygen supply, even if too much oxygen is displaced from the room? It’s not toxic, they don’t have to be protected from nitrogen, as long as they get enough oxygen.
I’d rather Alabama believe these problems are insurmountable, and just give up on the idea of execution.
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/89 "2024-01-24T23:53:32Z")
Your average HVAC tech could vent the room properly to virtually eliminate the risk of collateral damage.
Presuming that we can count on _any aspect of this_ being done right.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/90 "2024-01-25T02:14:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> A medical professional to administer the gas.
Lefty loosey.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/91 "2024-01-25T02:15:48Z")
Legally.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/92 "2024-01-25T02:19:23Z")
I’m against the death penalty, but if a state wanted to use nitrogen gas for executions wouldn’t it be a trivial process to make it legal for an employee of the prison to turn the e-cylinder flow on?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/93 "2024-01-25T02:22:31Z")
Would that force the nitrogen supplier to sell the product to the state once they knew what the state intended to use it for?
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/94 "2024-01-25T02:31:39Z")
Unlike drugs, pure nitrogen is relatively easy to produce has many many uses. So you don’t have the case where there are only a hand full of suppliers who force you to document your legitimate need and if they don’t like what they hear block you from getting it. Heck you can buy tanks of it on [Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/nitrogen-tank/s?k=nitrogen+tank).
As far as medical personnel being involved. This isn’t like lethal injection where you need to be sure that you have the dosage right and make sure that it gets into the body in the right way. Its really more of an engineering problem of making sure that there is nothing available for the victim to breathe other than N2, but that the levels of N2 stay below a certain level for any witnesses and prison personnel.
I personally am against the death penalty, but if it is going to be done, this sounds like the best way to do it.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/95 "2024-01-25T02:31:52Z")
All it would take is one industrial gas supplier who is strongly enough pro-death-penalty that they would love the opportunity to pwn the libs and make some money at it.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/96 "2024-01-25T02:41:46Z")
Buy the gas on Amazon. Get a retired doctor to fit the mask. There’s probably one who will
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/97 "2024-01-25T02:59:02Z")
> [@glee](#):
>
> The death penalty is not a deterrent either.
It does severely limit committing more murders.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/98 "2024-01-25T03:05:36Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> All it would take is one industrial gas supplier who is strongly enough pro-death-penalty that they would love the opportunity to pwn the libs and make some money at it
No supplier is going to know or care. Wouldn’t surprise me if many prisons are already getting nitrogen deliveries for some purpose or other. It could be that their maintenance shop likes to fill their tires with nitrogen, or they purge their sprinkler systems with it. It’s ludicrously easy to get, whether locally or online.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/99 "2024-01-25T03:09:00Z")
Perhaps OSHA rules for the safe use of nitrogen gas in the workplace?
[https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2020-10-29#:~:text=In%20accordance%20with%20the%20Occupational,of%20hazards%20and%20safe%20use](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2020-10-29#:~:text=In%20accordance%20with%20the%20Occupational,of%20hazards%20and%20safe%20use).
Are prisons exempt from OSHA regulations?
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/100 "2024-01-25T03:11:41Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> As far as medical personnel being involved. This isn’t like lethal injection
In a gas chamber, do medical professionals have to drop the cyanide tablet into the sulfuric acid? If not, how would this be any different?
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> Wouldn’t surprise me if many prisons are already getting nitrogen deliveries for some purpose or other.
How difficult is it to manufacture pure N2? Why couldn’t the state make it themselves if necessary?
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