# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/121 "2024-01-25T19:31:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> Is there a difference in rebreathing escape gasses like oxygen and carbon dioxide depending on the mask? I’m thinking you want a poor seal so that the nitrogen can push out of the mask everything that is not N2 before the next breath.
You’re right, you would. CPAP masks include deliberate leak paths so that your exhaled air all vents to atmosphere instead of accumulating in the hose to be inhaled over and over again.
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/122 "2024-01-25T19:35:49Z")
My alarm is set to CBC1 (Radio 1?). This morning I awoke to a story about the execution. One of the reporters said that veterinarians who euthanise animals with nitrogen calls the procedure (of euthanising the animals) ‘disturbing’.
---
### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/123 "2024-01-25T19:50:13Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> veterinarians who euthanise animals with nitrogen calls the procedure (of euthanising the animals) ‘disturbing’.
They are euthanizing animals that cannot be placed in shelters that are overly full. They are often healthy animals. Is that the disturbing part?
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/124 "2024-01-25T19:54:12Z")
Maybe we just think the execution itself is inhumane?
---
### Author:  [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/125 "2024-01-25T20:05:53Z")
Well, I have a little list…
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/126 "2024-01-25T20:17:41Z")
“I just don’t understand. We have proposed serving it cold, putting it in tea, flavoring it, sprinkling it in salad etc., but you have objected to every single method of giving people cyanide. Could you just tell us what method of giving people cyanide you _would_ approve of?”
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/127 "2024-01-25T20:24:36Z")
> [@kayaker](#):
>
> They are euthanizing animals that cannot be placed in shelters that are overly full. They are often healthy animals. Is that the disturbing part?
I don’t recall them elaborating. But then it was my alarm to wake me up.
---
### Author:  [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/128 "2024-01-25T20:38:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> “I just don’t understand. We have proposed serving it cold, putting it in tea, flavoring it, sprinkling it in salad etc., but you have objected to every single method of giving people cyanide. Could you just tell us what method of giving people cyanide you _would_ approve of?”
When you say, “Now they’re putting it in cake, which is entirely untested.” as though it were the cake that was the problem, then “how would you suggest we do it?” is an entirely reasonable question.
Anybody tearing their hair out because this method is ‘untested’ should surely be able to answer, “How should new methods be tested?” and “Which other method would you prefer?”.
If I were to be executed, I would definitely prefer “untested” nitrogen over lethal injection, hanging, firing squad, or (shudder) electric chair.
---
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/129 "2024-01-25T20:41:08Z")
> [@tofor](#):
>
> (shudder) electric chair
I see what you did there.
---
### Author:  [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/130 "2024-01-25T20:46:12Z")
> [@kayaker](#):
>
> They are euthanizing animals that cannot be placed in shelters that are overly full. They are often healthy animals. Is that the disturbing part
The report on [NPR Up First this morning](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/25/1198910393/haley-in-south-carolina-boeings-woes-alabama-execution) said something a bit different. They don’t have a transcript up, so this is going by memory: “Nitrogen asphyxiation is only authorized by veterinarians for use on pigs.”
I know they said something about it only being used on pigs. A very brief search tells me it is something called “gas stunning,” and that nitrogen has been tested/proposed/adopted(?) as an alternative to using carbon dioxide, supposedly because the animal “[won’t notice that it dies](https://www.thepigsite.com/news/2013/01/humane-euthanising-using-nitrogen-foam-1).”
---
### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/131 "2024-01-25T20:59:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Maybe we just think the execution itself is inhumane?
Then just say that. Focusing on the details weakens that argument, especially since nitrogen asphyxiation is well-tested under other conditions and relatively easy to administer.
The sense I get from some of the opposition is that its positive qualities are exactly the problem. They were hoping that the lack of lethal injection drugs would mean the end of executions. That didn’t happen, so now the plan is to cast doubt on the new method.
---
### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/132 "2024-01-25T21:13:09Z")
If there must be executions [sidestepping that whole question here] then the most humane method would be what’s used routinely by veterinarians: injection of a sedative in a dose that puts the animal into unconsciousness, then a second drug that stops the heart.
I’ve had cats and horses euthanized by this method, stayed with them throughout, and can attest that it’s a painless lights out. It ends pain, doesn’t inflict it. And it happens fast.
Obviously you need a trained professional to calculate the correct doses and do the injections properly. I can see why doctors would refuse to participate.
---
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/133 "2024-01-25T21:18:47Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#):
>
> then the most humane method would be what’s used routinely by veterinarians
States have a hard time getting any of those drugs, and most animals were probably not IV drug users and have better veins. And, doctors won’t help get the IVs into the condemned veins.
You’re basically describing lethal injection, which has a host of issues that nitrogen doesn’t.
---
### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/134 "2024-01-25T21:19:19Z")
> [@echoreply](#):
>
> “Nitrogen asphyxiation is only authorized by veterinarians for use on pigs.”
IIRC it was proposed for mass depopulation during COVID.
> **[A Systematic Literature Review on Depopulation Methods for Swine](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7699593/)**
>
> Mass depopulation involves ending the life of large numbers of animals due to emergency situations, for example, disease epidemics and environmental disasters. Depopulation should be conducted in a way that assures rapid and reliable unconsciousness...
---
### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/135 "2024-01-25T21:20:41Z")
Oh, agreed. I’m just noting that as a purely hypothetical matter that’s the most humane method of ending life. You’re quite right that in real life it’s problematic for all the reasons you cite.
---
### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/136 "2024-01-25T21:27:58Z")
Does anyone else find it peculiarly ironic that the world’s most obsessive gun-loving nation has such a hard time figuring out how to kill people when it’s sanctioned by legal ceremony?
---
### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/137 "2024-01-25T21:47:08Z")
Its a combination of two things. First is the diveristy within the country. The people who are obsessed with guns are generally mutually exclusive with the ones who are worried about the cruelty of the execution procedures.
Second both sides are backed up by our consitution, with peacenicks not being able to grab guns like they would like due to the second amendment, and gun nuts not being able to blast the heads off of the condemned like they might like due to the eighth.
---
### Author:  [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/138 "2024-01-25T21:53:25Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#):
>
> If there must be executions [sidestepping that whole question here] then the most humane method would be what’s used routinely by veterinarians: injection of a sedative in a dose that puts the animal into unconsciousness, then a second drug that stops the heart.
That’s exactly the regimen proposed when lethal injection was first implemented.
In theory, it’s as painless (aside from placing the IV) as anything could be.
In practice, it has not turned out that way (e.g. the first attempt to execute Smith). Not just the availability of the drugs, but the skills of the people conducting the state-sanctioned murder.
Obviously, I am opposed to the death penalty, and this case is a really glaring example of its useless application (35 years after the crime, hanging judge overrules 11 out ot 12 jurors to impose the penalty, AND one botched attempt).
But a big part of my anger is using a method that has not been tested (to be fair, how WOULD you test it?) on humans. You might argue that all of the other methods (electric chair, gas chamber, lethal injection) were at one point untested… well, yeah. Shouldn’t have used THEM either.
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> If nitrogen is “cruel,” then literally everything is. If Alabama went back to lethal injection, these DP-opponents would insist that is cruel, too.
Well, yeah. If all works well, it’s as “humane” (if murder ever is humane) as anything could be. On paper, it’s painless. It has not worked out that way in practice.
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> I think you don’t want an airtight seal. You want to deliver nitrogen at over atmospheric pressure to keep out atmospheric oxygen, and allow exhaled carbon dioxide to escape, becuse hypercapnia would be the most likely source of respiratory distress.
Good point. A non-rebreather mask would seem to be the right sort of thing (I know there are various other types of masks available).
If we’re lucky, manufacturers will now refuse to sell such masks to any prison system, which poses its own problem (as they have legitimate uses in, say, the prison infirmary).
---
### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/139 "2024-01-25T22:06:11Z")
For those with literal morbid curiosity, the death warrant has been in effect since midnight local time and ends at 6am tomorrow.
---
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/140 "2024-01-25T22:08:10Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#):
>
> If we’re lucky, manufacturers will now refuse to sell such masks to any prison system, which poses its own problem (as they have legitimate uses in, say, the prison infirmary).
That’s a charming fantasy, but of course it’s not going to happen. This method uses completely common industrial-grade components that are simply immune to supply-chain disruptions, and there’s no underlying formal ethics system like medicine has to enforce consensus.
I don’t see any easy back-door way to stop this form of execution unless it turns out to be massively more cruel than any alternative.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572.md?page=6)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572.md?page=8)