# Alabama retries failed execution with untried method (nitrogen)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 24, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572 "2024-01-24T01:40:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/141 "2024-01-25T22:21:02Z")
In terms of the ethics of testing it for the first time on humans, I think the standard would have to be informed consent,with the condemned being given the option of trying the new technique vs the previous standard and being informed of all possible complications of each method. Given that Smiths attorney’s are attempting to block this method it sounds like he definitely isn’t consenting. I suspect this may not so much be due to concerns about the procedure itself than it is an attempt to further delay his execution. But it would seem to me that he should be offered an alternative less experimental option.
It should be noted however that from a medical ethics in medical testing this thing raises just about every possible red flag terms of noncoercion and beneficence, but those are pretty much unavoidable given the nature of what is being tested. Still informed consent would seem to be an important yet theoretically achievable requirement.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/142 "2024-01-25T22:24:15Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> But it would seem to me that he should be offered an alternative less experimental option.
He was offered injection or nitrogen and chose nitrogen.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/143 "2024-01-25T22:28:53Z")
Of course, absolutely nothing of this process has anything to do with medical _anything_.
So as much as ethics matters, _medical_ ethics is completely inapplicable.
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/144 "2024-01-25T22:42:13Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> The sense I get from some of the opposition is that its positive qualities are exactly the problem. They were hoping that the lack of lethal injection drugs would mean the end of executions. That didn’t happen, so now the plan is to cast doubt on the new method.
This is a little more black-and-white than the reality for most people, but yes, this is mostly correct.
I am opposed to the death penalty for many reasons, and botched executions and pain and suffering during the process are only a few of those. My ultimate desire is to end the death penalty. There’s been a [gradual decrease in support since the mid 1990s.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1606/death-penalty.aspx), and [several states have abolished it in the last 20 years.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Repeal_movements_and_legal_challenges) It’s not idle hope that it can be ended.
So yes, there is a real fear that a more humane way of killing people will reverse or slow this trend. But that doesn’t matter much to the person being executed now, so despite my strong misgivings about killing people, I lean a bit toward at least doing it humanely.
Others might make the calculation that these people are going to be killed anyway, and the overall goal of ending it completely is better served by not making it easy. I don’t fault anyone for this opinion, but I hope people are honest in their arguments.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/145 "2024-01-25T22:45:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> It does severely limit committing more murders.
Not really. All the murderer has to do is wait for someone to get convicted and executed, and they’re home free. The case will never again be reopened.
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> How difficult is it to manufacture pure N2? Why couldn’t the state make it themselves if necessary?
Pretty easy, if you have the equipment. But it’s probably easier to buy the nitrogen itself than the equipment.
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> Second both sides are backed up by our consitution, with peacenicks not being able to grab guns like they would like due to the second amendment,
Why does everyone always say that? The Second Amendment, as currently interpreted, gives everyone the right to grab guns. The peaceniks are the ones who don’t want everyone grabbing guns.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/146 "2024-01-25T22:52:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Not really. All the murderer has to do is wait for someone to get convicted and executed, and they’re home free. The case will never again be reopened.
I’m not sure what point you’re making but executing a convicted murderer prevents them from committing more murders.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/147 "2024-01-25T22:56:49Z")
The point being made is that when an innocent is wrongly convicted of murder and executed, the actual murderer at large is completely and permanently liberated by the wrong person being executed, because you can’t execute a second person for the same crime.
If you imprison the wrongly-convicted person, you can release them and pursue the full course of justice with the actual murderer when you catch up with them.
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### Author:  [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/148 "2024-01-25T22:58:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> > [@Chronos](#):
> >
> > Not really. All the murderer has to do is wait for someone to get convicted and executed, and they’re home free. The case will never again be reopened.
>
> I’m not sure what point you’re making but executing a convicted murderer prevents them from committing more murders
A prison cell has a door. A grave does not. If a convicted murderer is later exonerated by new evidence - which is the whole _raison d’etre_ of the Innocence Project - the state can say, “Whoops, our bad” and release them.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/149 "2024-01-25T23:01:06Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> The point being made is that when an innocent is wrongly convicted of murder and executed, the actual murderer at large is completely and permanently liberated by the wrong person being executed, because you can’t execute a second person for the same crime.
Point taken about executing the wrong person but you can convict someone else of the same murder. Double jeopardy involves retrying the same person.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/150 "2024-01-25T23:02:41Z")
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> But that doesn’t matter much to the person being executed now, so despite my strong misgivings about killing people, I lean a bit toward at least doing it humanely.
Yeah. I mostly oppose the death penalty, but for practical reasons rather than ideological. It’s expensive and our justice system isn’t reliable enough for such an irreversible outcome.
But as long as we’re doing it, we should pick an effective technique. And one that reduces opportunities for games with drug availability or the like reduces my practical objections.
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> but I hope people are honest in their arguments.
Agreed. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to make things difficult given a desire to reduce the total number as much as possible. But I don’t think that should extend to spreading inaccuracies about the technique.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/151 "2024-01-25T23:02:44Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#):
>
> A prison cell has a door. A grave does not. If a convicted murderer is later exonerated by new evidence - which is the whole _raison d’etre_ of the Innocence Project - the state can say, “Whoops, our bad” and release them.
True but you’re arguing against the death penalty and this thread is about using nitrogen as a method of exocution.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/152 "2024-01-25T23:11:34Z")
I’m not sure about that.
My limited understanding is that once someone is executed for a capital crime, the case is closed. Post-mortem exoneration doesn’t allow you to go after another suspect.
But I would be glad to see a specific case to.the counter.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/153 "2024-01-25T23:12:26Z")
> [@hajario](#):
>
> He was offered injection or nitrogen and chose nitrogen.
OK, that wasn’t clear from the article I read, and as I said it seemed his attorneys were arguing against that particular method was particularly unacceptable, so I assumed that the method wasn’t his choice But it was probably just his attorneys throwing everything they could against all methods.
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### Author:  [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/154 "2024-01-25T23:15:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#):
> >
> > A prison cell has a door. A grave does not. If a convicted murderer is later exonerated by new evidence - which is the whole _raison d’etre_ of the Innocence Project - the state can say, “Whoops, our bad” and release them.
>
> True but you’re arguing against the death penalty and this thread is about using nitrogen as a method of exocution.
I’m not arguing either way (although I am opposed to the death penalty). I was merely trying to give @Chronos’s quote more context.
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### Author:  [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/155 "2024-01-25T23:25:46Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> My limited understanding is that once someone is executed for a capital crime, the case is closed.
I don’t think that’s entrenched in the law - but there’s little incentive for the authorities to pursue the real murderer. I tried googling this and had no luck.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/156 "2024-01-25T23:26:40Z")
attorneys
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> Of course, absolutely nothing of this process has anything to do with medical _anything_.
>
> So as much as ethics matters, _medical_ ethics is completely inapplicable.
Of course, which is why I pointed out that it raises just every red flag when tried to look at it from that point of view. But if the question is balancing the use an experimental procedure on a human subject vs all procedures being experimental the first time that they are used, starting with how this is answered in a medical context is a good place to start.
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> The Second Amendment, as currently interpreted, gives everyone the right to grab guns. The peaceniks are the ones who don’t want everyone grabbing guns.
😁
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/157 "2024-01-25T23:31:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Not really. All the murderer has to do is wait for someone to get convicted and executed, and they’re home free. The case will never again be reopened.
If evidence is found of someone else being responsible, they’d certainly reopen the case like a confession of an accomplice or something. Whether the wrong person is executed or serving life, the case is just as closed.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/158 "2024-01-25T23:34:21Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> My limited understanding is that once someone is executed for a capital crime, the case is closed. Post-mortem exoneration doesn’t allow you to go after another suspect.
>
> But I would be glad to see a specific case to.the counter.
Well that’s certainly the general process if a crime is considered closed. But if future DNA can be linked to a murder then there’s nothing stopping a re-opening of the case and a hearty apology to the prisoner executed for it.
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/159 "2024-01-25T23:36:58Z")
Nitrogen is sometimes used by people looking to take matters into their own hands. If random, untrained people can make it work with improvised delivery methods, I would think the method is simple enough that prison staff would be able to administer it in an effective manner. If I was the one being executed, based on what I’ve read, this would be my preferred method if I was given the choice.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-retries-failed-execution-with-untried-method-nitrogen/996572/160 "2024-01-25T23:49:08Z")
Was that last sentence supposed to be funny?
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