# Alabama woman indicted for the death of her unborn child after being shot by someone else **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136 "2019-06-27T02:17:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/61 "2019-06-29T14:00:42Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > What about a pregnant woman who runs a red light or enrages her abusive partner […]? Heck, what about a pregnant woman merely driving a car? That’s a “child” under 8 years of age not being properly secured in the back seat. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/62 "2019-06-29T16:10:33Z")
I thought about the disconnect with a few posters above and I guess I have to spell it out: There certainly are situations where someone can shoot a gun in self defense fearing their life and therefore not be guilty of a crime. However, based on what we do know - that it was [a woman](https://www.al.com/resizer/xM4UWYISaTWZZse6ixWl7J5oKkc=/600x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/TKFPB2AJENFMDNB4GGYEHM4ZYU.JPG) (i.e. not a huge, threatening man) and she wasn’t using any weapons (certainly not a gun of her own) - but MOST IMPORTANTLY the fact that Jones was charged for this and the quotes from the Lieutenant makes me quite suspicious of whatever criteria they are using to determine that Jemison had legitimate reason to fear for her life and had no other choice but to shoot to kill. If they’re so shitty at this whole “justice” thing, I’m not sure why it would be shocking that they would be shitty in other ways. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/63 "2019-06-29T16:15:40Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > **pkbites** , but felony murder requires the killing of another person. Which however as I understand the Law stands today, does not prevent any state from statutorily making _equivalent_ provisions for “wrongful fetal death” as for other forms of wrongful death, without necessitating the raising of the fetus to personhood (corrections welcomed from people involved in the actual judiciary). ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/64 "2019-06-29T16:17:05Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > There have been tons of threads about abortion here. The Georgia law (followed closely in time by the Alabama law) spawned a huge thread with these very kinds of hypotheticals in it, with pro-lifers arguing that those kinds of consequences wouldn’t happen, and pro-choicers asking why not? What’s the point of the personhood clauses otherwise? > > There have been GQ threads about overturning Roe and the consequences – could there be a nationwide ban on abortion? I’ve stated in those threads that if the Supreme Court agrees with these personhood laws and declares that fetuses are people with 14th Amendment and due process rights, then it’s easy to see that leading to a nationwide ban on abortion. > > There were long threads about the NY law and Virginia bill that takes the government pretty much out of this conversation, avoiding this situation entirely, but pro-lifers claimed those would lead to infanticide, because those pro-lifers are disingenuous lying assholes who take politicians’ quotes out of context and read them in the worst possible way. Sorry, I meant because they are conservative Christians, but I repeat myself. > > You’ve been around a while. You don’t think this board was howling each time some Republicans pushed forward this kind of anti-woman legislation (many of whom probably paid for their mistress’s abortions)? > > I’m in NJ – if there were any threat to abortion rights here, you can bet I’d be howling. If Alabama women want to fuck themselves over by voting for paternalistic, hypocritical assholes for their representatives and governor, there’s nothing much I can do about it but complain here and give money to Planned Parenthood. Nice screed. I didn’t say anything at all about abortion. I asked how many of you stood up and scream when these fetal protection rights started cropping up. Try to keep up. A quick wiki check tells me that at least as early as 2004 these laws were being enacted (2004 is the year the Fed Gov enacted theirs) and 38 states have laws that consider a fetus as a victim of crime. You are talking about last week - like the uninformed tend to. I am talking about when the problem (with easily foreseeable consequences and obvious indirect application to abortion) started. I’ll bet most of the people decrying this case said exactly fuck all - except possibly to praise these laws - back when the trend was starting and may have been stopped. Waiting until the shit has hit the fan, spattered the walls and begun sopping into the carpet is not the time to bleat about it. But that is the American way, not even remotely the right way, but the American way. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/65 "2019-06-29T17:55:40Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Nice screed… Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/66 "2019-06-29T18:00:29Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Wait, this must mean all my Canadian friends are… > > :eek: > > …_packing heat_? Mostly they’re just packing poutine. In the long run it’s more dangerous though. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/67 "2019-06-30T02:45:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you find that “getting shot” makes a person a victim, regardless of the circumstances? “Regardless of the circumstances” is a broader standard than required here. But in an altercation with an armed person who escalates? Yes, George. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/68 "2019-06-30T16:39:41Z")
[url=http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/40725101/funeral-for-abandoned-baby-monica-held-in-east-new-york]Funeral for “abandoned Baby Monica” in NYC. “Baby Monica” was a discarded five mouth old _fetus_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/69 "2019-06-30T17:42:32Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > “Regardless of the circumstances” is a broader standard than required here. > > But in an altercation with an armed person who escalates? Yes, George. This was a way more succinct and also better reply than mine. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/70 "2019-07-02T00:53:23Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > From the CNN article: > > So I guess he doesn’t see Jemison as a victim, either. Well duh. Her first name is Ebony. You do the math. I don’t really see what the big deal is. James could be out of jail tomorrow if she’d just take my legal advice. She should point out to the Lieutenant that the fetus was also black. Case dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/71 "2019-07-02T05:09:24Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > [url=[Funeral for abandoned ‘baby Monica’ held in East New York](http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/40725101/funeral-for-abandoned-baby-monica-held-in-east-new-york)]Funeral for “abandoned Baby Monica” in NYC. > > “Baby Monica” was a discarded five mouth old _fetus_. Your point? Not everyone has the means to bury or burn a baby/miscarriage. 5 months (not mouths)… is still in the area of didn’t know and what do you do? with no money. I know we have thrown away quite a few feral cats who died on our stretch of the road. My husband doesn’t love animals as much as I do (or did… he’s been a bit better these years) (he buried a dog that needed it ending up being a sister’s… roadkill that they didn’t ask about until 2 days after _and_ the dog had been shaved since last we saw it.) Coons and possums get thrown in the opposite ditch away from houses. I only lost a 3 month miscarriage. Which got flushed and then I went to the school nurse who let me lie down and then go home. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/72 "2019-07-02T13:50:09Z")
More on these monstrous laws and the devastating effect on women over the decades: > **[Opinion | Alabama Isn’t the Only State That Punishes Pregnant Women...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/01/opinion/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot.html)** > > Across the United States, pregnant women’s lives, rights and dignity matter less and less. Anyone who says these abortion and fetal personhood laws are not anti-woman is either lying or deluded. What a nightmare, and of course it impacts minority women the worst. Most of the examples in that article involve women being prosecuted for endangering their fetus while doing something illegal – have their been cases where one has been prosecuted for smoking, drinking, or, say, riding a roller coaster? The ones that come closest is the woman who was prosecuted for falling down the stairs and the one prosecuted for trying to commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/73 "2019-07-02T14:23:56Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Nice screed. I didn’t say anything at all about abortion. I asked how many of you stood up and scream when these fetal protection rights started cropping up. Try to keep up. > > A quick wiki check tells me that at least as early as 2004 these laws were being enacted (2004 is the year the Fed Gov enacted theirs) and 38 states have laws that consider a fetus as a victim of crime. You are talking about last week - like the uninformed tend to. I am talking about when the problem (with easily foreseeable consequences and obvious indirect application to abortion) started. > > I’ll bet most of the people decrying this case said exactly fuck all - except possibly to praise these laws - back when the trend was starting and may have been stopped. Waiting until the shit has hit the fan, spattered the walls and begun sopping into the carpet is not the time to bleat about it. But that is the American way, not even remotely the right way, but the American way. I have. I’ve been making this point since the late 1990s. And not just here - I’ve been making it withing reproductive rights circles - putting my money where my mouth is. When I was pregnant, one of the things that drove me nuts was other people policing my pregnancy. Everything from cold medicine to caffeine to gardening MIGHT endanger your fetus - and I’m certainly not interested in women going into “confinement” for nine months to have a baby. I was on “light bed rest” - I would have been on bed rest except I already had a baby in the house that I needed to care for. In other words, for some women, walking to the bathroom endangers their fetus - taking care of other children - working. The logical outcome of fetal endangerment laws is that pregnant me could have been hauled away to prison for cleaning the litterbox or changing my son’s diaper. A fetus residing in my body is there, in my opinion, as a parasite - perhaps a wanted and desired and much loved parasite. My body is my body, first and foremost - any guest taking up residence does so on my terms. Wanting my daughter (we struggled for three years with infertility and adopted before having a surprise pregnancy) I took care with my body when pregnant. But I did weed my garden and clean the litterbox. I did drink before I knew I was pregnant. I did eat deli meats. I did change my son’s diaper. I get to decide the level of risk I put my kid through - after all, we allow people not to vaccinate their living children, we let living children ride bikes and go swimming, why should I not be able to risk the litterbox. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/74 "2019-07-03T01:11:24Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > When I was pregnant, one of the things that drove me nuts was other people policing my pregnancy. I’ve always been pro-choice. Nothing made me MORE cemented and ardent in that view than my wanted, planned, healthy pregnancy. I was still a person and while I personally chose to alter parts of my lifestyle, I wasn’t going to listen to jack shit from another person not my doctor telling me what to do/not do. I love my child and I luckily didn’t have to make many difficult decisions, but I am still me and I did not surrender my personhood just because I was a High Occupancy Vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/75 "2019-07-03T02:09:19Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > I’ve always been pro-choice. Nothing made me MORE cemented and ardent in that view than my wanted, planned, healthy pregnancy. I was still a person and while I personally chose to alter parts of my lifestyle, I wasn’t going to listen to jack shit from another person not my doctor telling me what to do/not do. I love my child and I luckily didn’t have to make many difficult decisions, but I am still me and I did not surrender my personhood just because I was a High Occupancy Vehicle. It’s so weird what people feel like they have the right to police and what they don’t. Women get more support from other women when they want an abortion than they do when they drink a cup of regular coffee at 38 weeks. The assumption is that these “gray area” kinds of cases are rare, but they are literally part of every pregnancy. All of us have to decide what level of risk we are willing to live with. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/76 "2019-07-03T14:31:43Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s so weird what people feel like they have the right to police and what they don’t. Women get more support from other women when they want an abortion than they do when they drink a cup of regular coffee at 38 weeks. The assumption is that these “gray area” kinds of cases are rare, but they are literally part of every pregnancy. All of us have to decide what level of risk we are willing to live with. And don’t get started on what happens if you enter a bar to hang with friends and have a glass of tonic with a lime wedge it it :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/77 "2019-07-03T21:35:07Z")
Prosecutors have dropped the case. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/78 "2019-07-03T21:46:31Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Prosecutors have dropped the case. [Cite](https://apnews.com/4402f390a26c48c5933775b5c0457db6). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/79 "2019-07-04T03:23:45Z")
Good. ---
**Author:** ![AlphaOmegaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@AlphaOmegaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlphaOmegaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136/80 "2019-07-05T23:12:13Z")
Felony murder never had anything to do with this case. Felony murder does not extend to “felony manslaughter.” There is no felony-manslaughter rule. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alabama-woman-indicted-for-the-death-of-her-unborn-child-after-being-shot-by-someone-else/836136.md?page=5)