# AlahAkbar (NOT about the banning) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850 "2003-10-27T15:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/61 "2003-10-29T04:44:43Z")
**’possum stalker** : classic. 😃 **wring** : get on the horn with **'possum** to plan your next gig. I read this an hour ago after I drove home past a ring of flames near Magic Mountain. ☹ Thanks for the laugh, bud. ---
**Author:** ![cajela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cajela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cajela)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/62 "2003-10-29T04:49:25Z")
I’m still curious, though, and there doesn’t seem to be a definitive answer. \*\*wring \*\* is giving incorrect allegories. “Allah akbar” (allahuakbar?) is not offensive. If I’m right, it means “God is Great”. And it’s the first part of the call to prayer. Can anyone arabic speaking and muslim actually step in here? **aasna** gives some help - but I note that Akbar is not in the list of names belonging only to Allah. What does “disliked” mean in this context? And is a username subject to the same standards as a personal name, or could it be used in the same way as waving a flag, or analogous to using a different religious cliche like “Jesus Saves” or “Blessed Be” or “Praise Him”? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/63 "2003-10-29T04:49:32Z")
wring: Actually, I was just going off of Aldie’s assertion that the mere fact of the poster using such a user name proved he wasn’t Muslim. And you’re damn right I will hold him to that letter what with his constant stunts on this board regarding assertion and (his lack of) proof. aasna: Very interesting site. How authoratative is that site? Are there (large, even) groups of Muslims who don’t follow that interpretation? ---
**Author:** ![d\_redguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@d\_redguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_redguy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/64 "2003-10-29T05:07:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*BTW, Aldebaran; if it turns out that you’re wrong (which isn’t anywhere at all beyond the realm of likelihood at the moment), can we then say that you’re completely ignorant of Islam? \*\* Don’t answer him, **Alderbaran**! [IT’S A TRAP!](http://www.itsatrap.net) sorry, that was all I could think of through this entire thread… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/65 "2003-10-29T05:13:46Z")
So **aasna** , you made me re-read **gobear** ’s post and it got me to thinkin’. Are there any _bad_ Muslims who might not follow the _Qur’an_ so thoroughly? You know, like that one Christian Church in Ohio, The Holy Defenders of Judas, only they’ve got Ramadan? Aren’t there variations of Islam that might not be so _Muslim_? Honestly, sometimes my knee-jerk reactions make me think my school may have subscribed to a method called **Islam Is FUNdamental**. [1st grade teacher] _Little **B** , there are two kinds of Muslims: radical or in one thousand pieces. Now put your head down on your desk._ [/1gt] ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/66 "2003-10-29T09:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cajela \* > \*\*Can anyone arabic speaking and muslim actually step in here? **aasna** gives some help - but I note that Akbar is not in the list of names belonging only to Allah. What does “disliked” mean in this context? And is a username subject to the same standards as a personal name, or could it be used in the same way as waving a flag, or analogous to using a different religious cliche like “Jesus Saves” or “Blessed Be” or “Praise Him”? \*\* I’ll answer that point by point the best I can. 1. If you’ll read my quoted text from that page, it specifically says that the only name with “Allah” in it that is acceptable is “Abd Allah” (or “Abdullah”). 2. _Makrooh_ seems to mean “frowned upon”, if I get the gist of that article right. I got the translation “disliked” from the page itself. 3. Whether or not a username is permissible where a formal name is not is a very subjective issue, isn’t it? Take this example. I’ve seen the national flag of the United Kingdom plastered just about everywhere…on memorabilia, on hotpants, on teeshirts, on all sorts of things…and nobody really seems to mind. In India, it’s a very different story…putting the flag in a place that can be sat upon is considered very insulting to national pride. Similarly, I can see how Christianity may be willing to be easy about Jesus and co’s names taken in vain, whereas the Islamic community may feel very differently about Allah. In my experience so far, no Muslim acquaintance of mine has ever used an IM name with Allah in it. I asked one of them about it today, and she says one doesn’t even consider doing this. On being pressed about why, she said she had no idea. Now, she has been brought up in a very liberal household, with practically no religious instruction, and they still seem to feel this way. I guess you can draw your own conclusions. To me, it does seem to be a community thing, though. > [@](#): > > **Monty** : How authoratative is that site? Are there (large, even) groups of Muslims who don’t follow that interpretation? I read through sections of the main site, and it seems fairly legitimate and well-researched. Just MHO. As to your second question, there may be, for all I know! It’s just that I’ve never come across any! **Mr. B** , I’m afraid I can’t for the life of me figure out what you’re trying to say. Rephrase, please? ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/67 "2003-10-29T09:14:04Z")
I just noticed your location, **Mr. B**. I’m very curious now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/68 "2003-10-29T11:15:32Z")
aansa, take a peek at a bit of gobear’s post, and maybe Mr B’s question will be more clear > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > No Muslim is going to appropriate the name of the Most High because the casual blasphemy we take in stride in our pluralist society is unthinkable in the Muslim world. To them,the Name of God is so sacred that even a scrap of of waste paper bearing a fragment of the Qu’ran must be preserved because it might have borne the Name of God. No sincere, believing Muslim would so thoughtlessly desecrate the most holy name in the universe This seems to be a fairly extreme viewpoint to my western eyes. The christian world has a number of groups that vary in their interpretation of things. Some worshipers are more casual than others. Some christians actually break one of the _Ten Commandments_, if you can imagine! Why is it completely unthinkable that a single Muslim would fail to follow form in this? Are we to assume that every single person identified as Mulsim believes the exact same thing, at least on this issue, and never deviates? Are no Muslims casual or faulty in their observence? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/69 "2003-10-29T12:11:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Why is it completely unthinkable that a single Muslim would fail to follow form in this? Are we to assume that every single person identified as Mulsim believes the exact same thing, at least on this issue, and never deviates? Are no Muslims casual or faulty in their observence? Oh, there are plenty of “bad” Muslims. There have been many news reports of the discrepancies between private and public behavior in the more extreme Muslim states, such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, where young people booze up and watch forbidden satellite broadcasts away from the eyes of the religious police. Certainly most, if not all, of the leaders of the MENA nations are not particularly religious in their own private lives. . . but breaking the strictures against alcohol will get you a public flogging in Saudi, but blasphemy will get you killed. Even in states with more liberal governments like Pakistan (yes, Musharraf is a fairly liberal guy, even if his citizens are not), blasphemy is a capital crime, which shows the depth of animus against blasphemy in Muslim culture. While it is not physically or logically impossible to demonstrate that no Muslims has ever used the name “Allah” in a casual manner, the strong feelings against doing so in Muslim nations would indicate that such instances would be very, very rare if they ever happened at all. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/70 "2003-10-29T14:22:51Z")
What about in non muslim nations **gobear**? The poster, had it been real, could easily have been from Canada, or the States. Actually it would seem more likely. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/71 "2003-10-29T14:28:59Z")
> [@](#): > > What about in non muslim nations gobear? The poster, had it been real, could easily have been from Canada, or the States. Actually it would seem more likely. Well, it was obvious he was a troll faking being a Muslim, but had he been real, my comments would still apply. The vast majority of Muslims in the US (I couldn’t say about Canada) are recent immigrants, so the more casual culture in the US doesn’t really apply to them. No doubt, 20 years down the road, the 2nd generation will be much more Western in their approach, and may well give birth to a more moderate form of Americanized Islam. Although I really don’t think we’ll ever see WWAD t-shirts. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/72 "2003-10-29T14:30:57Z")
ACK, and that should be " no Muslim has ever" in my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/73 "2003-10-29T14:35:31Z")
Actually, I don’t see the non-use of “Allah” in casual naming as a form of extremism, **gobear**. It seems more to be an issue of convention and respect. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/74 "2003-10-29T14:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aasna \* > \*\*Actually, I don’t see the non-use of “Allah” in casual naming as a form of extremism, **gobear**. It seems more to be an issue of convention and respect. \*\* I agree; it’s just that, unfortunately, convention and respect don’t fit in well in the US popular culture. Mind, I could be completely wrong, it’s just one guy’s (no doubt flawed) opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/75 "2003-10-29T14:59:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Well, it was obvious he was a troll faking being a Muslim, but had he been real, my comments would still apply. The vast majority of Muslims in the US (I couldn’t say about Canada) are recent immigrants, so the more casual culture in the US doesn’t really apply to them. No doubt, 20 years down the road, the 2nd generation will be much more Western in their approach, and may well give birth to a more moderate form of Americanized Islam. > > Although I really don’t think we’ll ever see WWAD t-shirts. \*\* Suppose not, even more offensive comments cold be made. Mind you, you don’t need a mature 20-something to dream up religiously provocative user-id. Any pissed of 14 year old can pull that off. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/76 "2003-10-29T17:01:50Z")
Right. Arab Muslim checking in, here. Sorry I’m late to the thread, guys, but I’ll be happy to answer any questions on this that I can. For starters, I’d say that the username in question is mildly offensive, as it uses the name of the Almighty for a frivolous purpose. I’d also venture to say that while there are indeed Muslims out there who might use the name thoughtlessly, it’s highly unlikely given the depth of respect most Muslims hold for the name of God. Just my two dinars… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/77 "2003-10-29T17:11:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aasna \* > > I just noticed your location, **Mr. B**. I’m very curious now. 🙂 **aasna** , I am currently on the horns of a Nandi-sized dilemma regarding my family’s business. Except in my case, Krishna appears to be in someone else’s chariot. 😉 A subject for another thread, but do you know the Gita? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/78 "2003-10-29T23:46:31Z")
Bibliovore- I find your name offensive. “Biblio” means “Bible”- the holy book of Christians and Moslems both. “vore” means “to eat”- as in you are eating the Holy book. :dubious: rolleyes: Dudes- there is a difference in some one being really named one thing, and a user name. No one would likely name their child “Satan”- and some Christians could find that offensive even as a username. But so? We have lots of dudes here with a religious name of some sorts. Are we going to ban them all? And then saying “no True Believer would use the name in that way” is a “no true scotsman” logical fallacy of the 1st order. Then Aasna posts a link to a site hosted by a Sheik. This site only says the name is “frowned upon”, and where is this Sheik to be the “Pope” of the Moslem Faith in any case? Who died and make him Mohammed? Has the Prophet returned and is speaking on this site? :dubious: The name _is_ used for “things” and a “username” is a “thing” not really a persons name. Was this dude really banned because “Alderbaron-the-master& arbiter-of- all-things-Moslem-on-the-SDMB” was offended by his username? Hey, then can I say I am the “master&arbiter-of-all-things-Christian-on-the-SDMB” (even though I am mostly an Agnostic) and get to have dudes banned because I have ruled that “no true Christian” would have that name, and “I am offended”? :dubious: :rolleyes: Please? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/79 "2003-10-29T23:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*Was this dude really banned because “Alderbaron-the-master& arbiter-of- all-things-Moslem-on-the-SDMB” was offended by his username? Hey, then can I say I am the “master&arbiter-of-all-things-Christian-on-the-SDMB” (even though I am mostly an Agnostic) and get to have dudes banned because I have ruled that “no true Christian” would have that name, and “I am offended”? :dubious: :rolleyes: \*\* what the hell are you talking about? alahakbar was banned for being a troll trying to impersonate fundie muslims. the only thing he’d post was over-the-top stuff about how all women are livestock and homos have to die. the name was only relevant because it was another piece of proof that he was merely pretending to be a fundie muslim. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850/80 "2003-10-29T23:59:17Z")
**DrDeth** , I think I can say without fear of contradiction that you have got the wrong end of the stick here. You might want to read through the thread again. BTW, I think most likely that **AA** was banned for trollish behavior, not his username. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alahakbar-not-about-the-banning/209850.md?page=5)