# Alan Keyes is Suing Obama
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [November 19, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513 "2008-11-19T20:20:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/61 "2008-12-06T21:41:27Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#):
>
> You’re definitely an American, but are you a “natural born citizen?”
>
> That’s the question.
Doesn’t that depend on whether or not TroubleAgain’s mother had a c-section?😃
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/62 "2008-12-06T23:15:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> By the way, the assertion made in other lawsuits (not the Donofrio suit) that Obama was born in Kenya is based on a debunked allegation (now widely repeated and taken as an article of religious faith on the fringe right) that a Kenyan step-grandmother once claimed he was born in Kenya. [This from Slate](http://www.slate.com/id/2206033/pagenum/2):
>
> So basically, that myth is busted. There was a glitch with the translators that was emphatically corrected in the same phone call, and the correction was edited out of the transcript by Berg. The grandmother that the wingnuts love so much actually said Obama was born in Hawaii. Not only that, but there is no evidence Ann Dunham ever went to Kenya in the first place.
>
> In favor of Hawaiian birth for Obama, we have the public copy of the Birth Certificate, the confirmation by the state itself and (perhaps less official but still probative), a birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper.
>
> In favor of birth outside the US, we have…nothing.
One of my hand-waving republican friends believes that Obama isn’t a citizen. He doesn’t believe that the Hawaiian official who reviewed the birth document can be trusted and he keeps repeating, “Why doesn’t he just show the document???” He does not believe a “certificate of live birth” is the same as a birth certificate (I checked my birth certificate and it is indeed a “certificate of live birth”). He wants them to unlock the vault and produce the document that (I guess) is filled out at the moment of birth. He wants to hold Obama to a different standard than the one I have to meet in order to be employed by the company I work for.
Ok, so he’s goofy in the head. My question is, is “showing” documentation a standard step in the presidential election process? Has any president ever had to show ANY documentation to prove that he’s eligible to be president?
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/63 "2008-12-07T00:44:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> Justice Thomas has referred the case to the full Court conference for cert, and they’ll be voting on it today.
So what happened? I can’t find a single thing about it.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/64 "2008-12-07T00:48:38Z")
> [@Leaper](#):
>
> So what happened? I can’t find a single thing about it.
I don’t think they announce the decision till monday.
I can save you the trouble of waiting if you want: they will deny cert.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/65 "2008-12-07T01:01:19Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#):
>
> I think the whole “actually born in Kenya” thing was pretty much put to bed by the aforementioned birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper.
You’re gonna love this - those who think that Obama isn’t a citizen say that his grandparents (or whoever) planted a false birth announcement in '61 so Barack could have support for citizenship so he could enjoy all the things that come with being a U.S. citizen.
Why a newspaper birth announcement would matter to the government, or why anyone else would think it did, is not explained.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/66 "2008-12-07T03:50:36Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> Ok, so he’s goofy in the head. My question is, is “showing” documentation a standard step in the presidential election process? Has any president ever had to show ANY documentation to prove that he’s eligible to be president?
No, though it’s rare that the issue even comes up. There were some questions about Goldwater in 1964 (Arizona wasn’t a state when he was born) and Romney in 1968 (born in Mexico – he wanted to be near his mother), and John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone) but no one really pursued the issue.
Generally, though, presidential candidates were born in the US of two US citizens (the early presidents were grandfathered in as being natural born by being citizens at the time the constitution was adopted), so no one questioned it.
Obama may be the first president who had one parent who wasn’t a US citizen. It doesn’t matter legally, but it gives the wackos something to latch on to.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/67 "2008-12-07T05:20:25Z")
There’s one more fact worth noting, which I and others dealt with over in the GQ thread on this.
The SCOTUS conference is not deciding whether to hear the Donofrio suit tomorrow (i.e., evaluating a petition to grant certiorari); they’re voting on whether to grant a stay. I.e., the Donofrio lawyers are petitioning them to stay something related to Obama’s election until they decide wiether to grant cert. (I supposed it to be the inauguration; others have suggested they enjoin his Electors from voting for him.) And the reason this is going to conference is that one Justice already refused to grant a stay (individual justices can grant stays), and Justice Thomas was the second justice they requested it from. Something I hadn’t known until that suit is that when someone asking for a stay “goes Justice shopping”, the custom is for the second justice to get the request to circulate it for conference – if rejected in conference, it’s permanently rejected, and no more justices get bugged with stay requests.
So in short, Justice Thomas is not necessarily giving this any credence; he’s probably using a bit of little-known Court rules to put an end to a nuisance suit.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/68 "2008-12-07T06:11:58Z")
But that’s not what the Court would be deciding if they actually do grant cert. The question before them is whether or not Keyes has standing, isn’t it?
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/69 "2008-12-07T06:24:26Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> But that’s not what the Court would be deciding if they actually do grant cert. The question before them is whether or not Keyes has standing, isn’t it?
Well, assuming you’re talking about the **Polycarp** post just before yours, you seem to be a bit confused…
> [@Polycarp](#):
>
> The SCOTUS conference is not deciding whether to hear the **Donofrio** suit tomorrow (i.e., evaluating a petition to grant certiorari); they’re voting on whether to grant a stay. I.e., the **Donofrio** lawyers are petitioning them to stay something related to Obama’s election until they decide wiether to grant cert.
> [@OP's story](#):
>
> Alan Keyes and other members of the party have filed suit in **California Superior Court in Sacramento**
(Emphases mine.)
So these are two totally different things in two totally different venues.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/70 "2008-12-07T06:27:37Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#):
>
> I’ve been completely puzzed for the last few years as to why on earth the local GOP thought that Keyes had even a shadow of a chance of beating Obama in that race. It’s a mystery as to how they could have been that stupid.
They didn’t and they weren’t. Even Ditka refused their invitation because he was not willing to pay for his own campaign. That election was Obama’s to lose and the Illinois GOP knew it. They were not about to throw good money after bad. Keyes, OTOH, was.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/71 "2008-12-07T06:48:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> (remember him hiring a stalker to follow Obama 24/7 with a video camera?).
That’s been a pretty standard practice for years.
The Minnesota Republican party did it 18 years ago in 1990 when they had someone following Paul Wellstone around, taping everything he said.
But that backfired on them. By the end of the campaign, this guy had heard so many Wellstone speeches and seen Paul Wellstone deal with so many members of the public that he ended up voting for Wellstone!
It’s gone beyond that. At the last Minnesota State Fair, they had someone taping Al Franken while they sent Republicans up to his booth with scripted insults to try to get Franken angry or rude on tape.
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### Author:  [@Thalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thalion)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/72 "2008-12-07T07:26:30Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> There were some questions about Goldwater in 1964 (Arizona wasn’t a state when he was born) and Romney in 1968 ( **born in Mexico – he wanted to be near his mother** ),
That’s very sweet of Romney, but - concidering the umbilical cord and all - isn’t it kind of required? 🙂
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### Author:  [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2008, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/73 "2008-12-07T08:43:52Z")
> [@Leaper](#):
>
> You’re gonna love this - those who think that Obama isn’t a citizen say that his grandparents (or whoever) planted a false birth announcement in '61 so Barack could have support for citizenship so he could enjoy all the things that come with being a U.S. citizen.
>
> Why a newspaper birth announcement would matter to the government, or why anyone else would think it did, is not explained.
My parents contacted their local newspaper when each of my sons was born, and requested that a birth announcement be printed. The newspaper did so and they sent us copies that I still have around here somewhere - even though the boys weren’t even born in the US, let alone in the same city as the newspaper. This is standard practice; read the birth announcements in a local American paper for long enough and you’ll come across and out-of-town birth announced there by proud grandparents.
We already have reason to believe that the people who assume Barack Obama wasn’t born a US citizen have never applied for a passport; perhaps another part of the problem is that they don’t read newspapers.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/74 "2008-12-08T16:51:53Z")
The court has [rejected the Donofio appeal without comment](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28111773/).
No shocker there. Berg’s moronic appeal is still pending, though. No idea when they’ll get around to rejecting that one.
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### Author:  [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/75 "2008-12-08T17:52:22Z")
> [@elfkin477](#):
>
> Doesn’t that depend on whether or not TroubleAgain’s mother had a c-section?😃
😃 She didn’t!
(FTR, I was born on a US Navy base, so that counts, anyhow.)
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### Author:  [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/76 "2008-12-08T23:22:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> Actually, the Donofrio suit (the one distributed by Justice Thomas for conference today) does not contest that Obama was born in Hawaii. Donofrio is trying to argue that even though Obama was born in Hawaii, he’s not a NBC because his father was a British citizen and that somehow makes Obama a dual citizen and that somehow makes him ineligible to be POTUS. It’s really that asinine.
This makes me wonder if there’s any nutters out there who feel:
1. The US\* illegally overthrew the legitimate Hawaiian kingdom
2. So the US could not have annexed Hawaii and given it statehood
3. Therefore, Obama was born in the de jure Kingdom of Hawaii
\*The US didn’t, it was an internal revolution that overthrew the Queen.
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### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/77 "2008-12-09T00:36:22Z")
> [@HubZilla](#):
>
> This makes me wonder if there’s any nutters out there who feel:
Well, they will now!
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/78 "2008-12-09T00:47:57Z")
> [@HubZilla](#):
>
> This makes me wonder if there’s any nutters out there who feel:
>
> 1. The US\* illegally overthrew the legitimate Hawaiian kingdom
> 2. So the US could not have annexed Hawaii and given it statehood
> 3. Therefore, Obama was born in the de jure Kingdom of Hawaii
> \*The US didn’t, it was an internal revolution that overthrew the Queen.
Yes, there are.
[Article.](http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Mar/13/ln/hawaii803130344.html)
[Commentary.](http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C1126750129/E20080313103421/index.html)
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/79 "2008-12-10T04:03:00Z")
[We don’t care what SCOTUS says, we think there’s something fishy going on.](http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html) Some aspects of the article are a real hoot.
> [@](#):
>
> The released birth certificate. It is often claimed that Obama has already released his birth certificate. What we have is an online copy via the web site [FightTheSmears.com](http://FightTheSmears.com). There are several significant questions about this certificate.
>
> Did this really come from Obama? Is FightTheSmears an official conduit of information from Obama?
> How genuine is the document? Is it a photo-shopped or Microsoft Word fake, ala Dan Rather’s memo? (I am not a forensic documentarian, so I will remain silent here. Snopes says it isn’t a forgery.)
---
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alan-keyes-is-suing-obama/473513/80 "2008-12-10T18:04:38Z")
Let’s not forget the Freepers saying that Obama killed his grandmother to keep her silent (and to gain sympathy votes in the bargain!) about his “true citizen status”.
God. These are the same types who said that JFK was going to allow the Vatican to infiltrate the government and take over the US.
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