# Alarming trend in moderation **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 11, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891 "2019-07-11T06:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/81 "2019-07-11T20:47:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I do give you several points for creativity, however, it misses the issue. > > The problem with “don’t be a jerk” is that one’s jerkishness has gone far beyond a universal recognition of being a jerk and into a wholly subjective and subconsciously politically based determination of what being a jerk consists of. It really has come to mean nothing more than “upsets a moderator at this time.” I disagree with you. Human beings as a rule have the infinite capacity to ignore their own jerkish-ness. If poster X does not understand that he is being a jerk, but is warned for that reason, in the majority of cases that warning was earned. I don’t think it is the responsibility of the moderators to teach posters how to behave towards each other with more civility than 12-year-olds on the playground. If one absolutely must be a jerk, there’s a forum for that. Hie thee to the Pit. The fact that there are posters on this board who complain about not being able to say and behave any way they like, but they won’t (virtually) step foot into the Pit because it’s not couth enough amazes me no end. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/82 "2019-07-11T21:04:29Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I don’t think it is the responsibility of the moderators to teach posters how to behave towards each other with more civility than 12-year-olds on the playground. If one absolutely must be a jerk, there’s a forum for that. Hie thee to the Pit. The fact that there are posters on this board who complain about not being able to say and behave any way they like, but they won’t (virtually) step foot into the Pit because it’s not couth enough amazes me no end. IMHO, those who speak loudest about rules not being obvious are the same ones who would totally start dancing around a bright line. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/83 "2019-07-11T21:35:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > In re recent warnings of Sammy and Manson: > > We are not there yet, but if the moderation trajectory continues apace, within a few months or a year it will be a demerit in my eyes if you can post regularly on this board and not get banned, because you will either be a true believer in an almost Maoist politically correct agenda, or be living out your days in pathetically cowed prostration before said True Believers. **SlackerInc** , keep an eye on me. I’ve been here from the beginning, and no one has ever accused me of being a “true believer in an almost Maoist politically correct agenda, or be living out your days in pathetically cowed prostration before said True Believers” I currently have no plans to leave this Board voluntarily, no matter how irritating I may or may not find the current political climate. I guess that makes me the canary in the coal mine. When you no longer see **Kent Clark** post here, all is lost.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/84 "2019-07-11T21:46:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think SlackerInc has something of a point, even if he’s not doing a stellar job of explaining it. There are black holes that have cast more light on this alleged dispute. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/85 "2019-07-11T21:51:41Z")
Kent, noted. > [@Chronos](#): > > For that matter, religious discussions are also allowed in other forums, so long as they don’t include witnessing. And if they include comments about Islam similar to those that create a Twitter firestorm when they come from OBE Richard Dawkins? > [@Loach](#): > > Ok so you feel constrained. Any specific ways that you are actually constrained? The topic has not been banned. Is there no way that you could post about the topic without breaking the rules of the board? I feel quite confident that paraphrasing Pinker (without attribution) would incite many posters to report “misogyny” and more. If I quoted him, I might be on safer ground since he has been nominated for the Pulitzer Prize and is a Harvard professor and so on. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > IMHO, those who speak loudest about rules not being obvious are the same ones who would totally start dancing around a bright line. And this would be a problem why, exactly? 😕 That’s called “following the rules”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/86 "2019-07-11T22:31:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > (…) (a rather mundane and undisputed fact) (…) Not mundane, not undisputed and sure as shit not a fact. By far the most sexual violence is committed in the home of the victim. (Why is this nonsense allowed here? Others got warned for… exactly the same bullshit) ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/87 "2019-07-11T22:58:32Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Not mundane, not undisputed and sure as shit not a fact. > > By far the most sexual violence is committed in the home of the victim. > > (Why is this nonsense allowed here? Others got warned for… exactly the same bullshit) You have hit upon why the other thread got closed, then the second thread got a warning, and further discussion of this is supposed to go to a new thread in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/88 "2019-07-11T23:00:37Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And this would be a problem why, exactly? 😕 That’s called “following the rules”. I’ve always called it “I’m not touching you”, but YMMV. > [@Ravenman](#): > > The decision of these peers can then be appealed three times, ultimately bringing the matter to **Ed Zotti** if he so deigns. Of course he might remand the issue to the Privy Council of ATMB, which can then form a commission of inquiry comprised of the anonymous posters on Giraffe Boards as a neutral third party. Correct me if I’m wrong, but **Ed Zotti** is no longer around, right? (Yes, I know the rest is a joke) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/89 "2019-07-11T23:07:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but **Ed Zotti** is no longer around, right? (Yes, I know the rest is a joke) He’s just taken on status as a really senior judge. Like, Thurgood Marshall-like seniority. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/90 "2019-07-11T23:13:35Z")
Ed Zotti left the building, as it were, a little over a year ago. He is not currently involved in the day to day operations of The Straight Dope. However, he is writing occasional articles for the Chicago Sun-Times (non-Straight Dope related) and I recommend you look them up and read them, especially residents of the greater Chicago area. They are all about where Chicago has been and where Chicago is going; Ed is very knowledgeable about this sort of thing. Well worth your time. > **[Everything you think you know about Chicago is wrong](https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/5/31/18643195/ed-zotti-city-crossroads-chicago-planning-future-economy-transportation-population)** > > Chicago is lively, easy to get to and cheap. If it doesn’t stand out in any particular field right now, don’t worry. Something will emerge. Jenny your humble TubaDiva ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/91 "2019-07-11T23:46:13Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Not mundane, not undisputed and sure as shit not a fact. > > By far the most sexual violence is committed in the home of the victim. > > (Why is this nonsense allowed here? Others got warned for… exactly the same bullshit) The statement is not: Stay at home and you won’t be raped. The statement is: Stay at home and you have a smaller chance of being raped. This latter statement is objectively factual. To be false, it would have to be true that no rapes occur outside the home. Do you, in fact, contend that to be true? I am not taking any position on the moderation decisions, but I DO object to the claim that somehow it’s not correct to assert that a woman who stays at home is less likely to be raped than one who goes out into public, especially to places which have historical connection to occurrence of rape. The fact that the statement is true does not equate to a statement that women shouldn’t leave the home, and are inviting rape if they do (which would be an obnoxious premise). ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/92 "2019-07-11T23:53:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And if they include comments about Islam similar to those that create a Twitter firestorm when they come from OBE Richard Dawkins? You mean comparing Islam as an ideology to cancer? Put it in the Pit, that’s where rants go. You’ll surely get jumped on, but I don’t think you would get warned unless you started slinging racist slurs. Like saying _Muslims are a cancer_. > [@kopek](#): > > b) That being said and all jokes aside, I do agree that something seems/feels different. Now that “Dad” has stepped aside and the inmates are indeed running the asylum -------- it is almost a high school clique kind of vibe. I don’t know if it can be avoided or changed but while I don’t have any fears because of it, I do have to admit (at least to myself) that it is there. Not disputing your perception at all, but honestly IMHO this place was MUCH more cliquey back in the pre-pay-to-post days of the early 2000s. This place was much more of a social hub for some before the rise of the social media giants like Facebook. Lots of regional meat-space parties, more social clustering of like-minded folks and lots of petty social drama as a result that played itself out in little personal feuds and spats. What has changed is the degree of political homogenization in board membership. But social cliques per se seem less prominent to me. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/93 "2019-07-12T00:05:26Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The statement is not: Stay at home and you won’t be raped. > > The statement is: Stay at home and you have a smaller chance of being raped. > > This latter statement is objectively factual. To be false, it would have to be true that no rapes occur outside the home. Do you, in fact, contend that to be true? > > I am not taking any position on the moderation decisions, but I DO object to the claim that somehow it’s not correct to assert that a woman who stays at home is less likely to be raped than one who goes out into public, especially to places which have historical connection to occurrence of rape. The fact that the statement is true does not equate to a statement that women shouldn’t leave the home, and are inviting rape if they do (which would be an obnoxious premise). If you want to relate this to a moderation decision that’s fine, but if you only want to debate the topic itself, that is not appropriate for ATMB. Take it to GD if you want, but I want no more discussions about the rape topic in ATMB. Any further discussions of the rape topic in ATMB without being explicitly related to moderation actions or rules will result in warnings. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/94 "2019-07-12T01:16:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > He’s just taken on status as a really senior judge. Like, Thurgood Marshall-like seniority. OMG! Ed is **DEAD???** :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/95 "2019-07-12T02:05:20Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > OMG! Ed is **DEAD???** :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: No, he’s living on a farm downstate where he can play with the other editors and chase squirrels. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/96 "2019-07-12T02:29:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’ve always called it “I’m not touching you”, but YMMV. > (Snipped) You could also call it “being a jerk.” ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/97 "2019-07-12T02:46:22Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Not disputing your perception at all, but honestly IMHO this place was MUCH more cliquey back in the pre-pay-to-post days of the early 2000s. This place was much more of a social hub for some before the rise of the social media giants like Facebook. Lots of regional meat-space parties, more social clustering of like-minded folks and lots of petty social drama as a result that played itself out in little personal feuds and spats. > > What has changed is the degree of political homogenization in board membership. But social cliques per se seem less prominent to me. Going back before membership what cliques you had seemed to me regional (the DC area and Eastern Ohio as examples) and mostly an outgrowth of the Dopefests. Some of that still continued after membership was established but maybe not as much as before. Plus we lost a lot of people like Norinew and when the gatherings became memorials — it just wasn’t the same. But now there does seem to be something, as I said before, with some Mods getting seriously territorial and the Mods themselves almost being a clique of their own combined with a few of the retired ones as well. It doesn’t make sense in a way; they strike me as pretty diverse in terms of view/politics/background but it still seems to be there. Sort of like among the motorcycle clubs; he may be an asshole and totally wrong but if he’s got the patch I’m going to pile on with him if I agree or not. I see that in a sense among a couple of these latest threads. It doesn’t concern me much in the end; I am not prepared to call it a totally bad thing. But it is interesting to note. I’ll include it in our next report to The Big Giant Head. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/98 "2019-07-12T03:52:13Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > OMG! Ed is **DEAD???** :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: No that’s Zed. Zed’s dead baby. Zed’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/99 "2019-07-12T06:20:33Z")
I still read the initial post by **SamuelA** as a disingenuous way to try and inject a Nazi argument into GQ. The wording was already suspect, and the poster had a history of “stumbling on” bigoted crap (as noted in the Pit thread). The disingenuousness was only made clearer by the poster’s subsequent responses. This was enough to at least close the thread. Their linking it with rape apologia arguments was enough to make it abundantly clear that they were pissing people off. Such a comparison would have no reason to exist in a thread that was asking a factual question. As such, the poster was warned for trolling. **manson** ’s issue was more of refusing to listen to moderator instructions. He was told not to try and argue about rape-related stuff in ATMB, but he kept on doing so. Even after a thread was closed, he brought it back up again. So he got a Warning. While I can maybe a small shift in priorities, I don’t really see how either type of moderation was inconsistent with how the board has been moderated in the past. Someone has literally been banned for their continued Nazi arguments, and a poster has been banned for rape apologia. (This didn’t quite go that far, so it got less punishment.) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891/100 "2019-07-12T07:47:55Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > If you want to relate this to a moderation decision that’s fine, but if you only want to debate the topic itself, that is not appropriate for ATMB. Take it to GD if you want, but I want no more discussions about the rape topic in ATMB. > > Any further discussions of the rape topic in ATMB without being explicitly related to moderation actions or rules will result in warnings. Let’s say that The Librarian is right and the argument is false. I’ll follow your instructions and not debate it. But let’s say it is false. Why should it be warnable to make an argument that turns out to be false? And I understand why you don’t want a debate about it, but the fact that there is a debate about it makes it debatable. And it makes your warning to manson, IMHO, a bullshit one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alarming-trend-in-moderation/836891.md?page=6)