# Alas, the real reason for war finally surfaces. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718 "2003-08-26T12:15:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/1 "2003-08-26T12:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > The United States has asked Israel to check the possibility of pumping oil from Iraq to the oil refineries in Haifa. The request came in a telegram last week from a senior Pentagon official to a top Foreign Ministry official in Jerusalem. > > The Prime Minister’s Office, which views the pipeline to Haifa as a “bonus” the U.S. could give to Israel in return for its unequivocal support for the American-led campaign in Iraq, had asked the Americans for the official telegram. > > [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=332835&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=332835&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y) Did you notice that the article stated that “The United States asked Israel”, but further into the article it is revealed that the Prime Minister’s Office asked for the “official telegram”? This seems to be somewhat similar to the Balfour Declaration. The Balfour Declaration was an official communique that declared the support of Great Britian for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The Balfour Declaration is often cited as the justification for the establishment of modern-day Israel. But, there is a protion of the Balfour Declaration that is never publicly acknowledged. > [@](#): > > … it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine … This “official telegram” is just another self-serving document that will be used, in much the same manner as the Balfour Declaration, to advance the goals of Zionism and further embroil the American taxpayer into a geo-political conflict of “New World Order” proportions. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/2 "2003-08-26T12:28:22Z")
Except, you’re wrong in substance. It might be a creaming off a piece for the Israeli economy, but the need [isn’t as strategic as one might think:](http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/energy/israel.htm) "Israel depends almost exclusively on imports to meet its energy needs. Traditionally, Israel imported most of its oil from Mexico and Norway. Recent improvements in relations with the Arab world have led to Israel looking closer to home for its energy needs. Presently, Israel obtains about 20 percent of its oil from Egypt, and the country has established business contacts with other Arab oil and gas producers, including Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain. On August of 1996, Israel and Jordan concluded an energy accord as an outgrowth of their October 1994 peace treaty. " ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/3 "2003-08-26T12:29:55Z")
I don`t see the problem. If the US is trying to prop up its interests in the region, now is the best time. We`re already in Iraq, we have control of the oil fields, and Isreal is an ally. We could do anything we wanted at this point - this seems rather tame if you ask me. We`re already embroiled in the operations of the Mideast, probably more than any of us know. Could you please clarify the importance of the “telegram” in your mind? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/4 "2003-08-26T12:34:04Z")
A lot of ‘bonuses’ in this war, aren’t there! It makes logical sense to run Iraqi oil to the market in Israel in order to provide profits for the Iraqi people. It does not make for good PR in the Middle East, though, does it? Wonder who’ll get the contract…? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/5 "2003-08-26T12:37:28Z")
I see no ”reason for war” here. Perhaps I see someone using all available information, whether relevant or not, to back up own preconceived notions. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![T.Mehr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@T.Mehr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Mehr)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/6 "2003-08-26T12:39:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Razorsharp \* > This “official telegram” is just another self-serving document that will be used, in much the same manner as the Balfour Declaration, to advance the goals of Zionism and further embroil the American taxpayer into a geo-political conflict of “New World Order” proportions. What, in your opinion, are _the goals of Zionism_ and how will a doomed project like a US-Israeli pipeline through Arab teritory advance them? Or is the whole thing bullshit anyhow? As the article states, all similar pipelines have been blown up lately or are out of service for decades. So who would want to build something like that…? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/7 "2003-08-26T12:48:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Razorsharp \* > This “official telegram” is just another self-serving document that will be used, in much the same manner as the Balfour Declaration, to advance the goals of Zionism and further embroil the American taxpayer into a geo-political conflict of “New World Order” proportions. Wow, that Zionism sounds like nasty stuff. Would you please enlighten me as to the goals of this doctrine and the identity of its proponents? Thanks much. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/8 "2003-08-26T12:54:08Z")
I wouldnt worry about a Iraq-Israel pipeline… its bound to be hit and attacked so frequently as to make it useless. It does show that the US is too cozy with Israel… ---
**Author:** ![T.Mehr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@T.Mehr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Mehr)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/9 "2003-08-26T12:56:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whuckfistle \* > We`re already in Iraq, we have control of the oil fields, and Isreal is an ally. We could do anything we wanted at this point - It’s exactly this kind of statements that infuriates the folks in the mid-east and makes Europeas frown. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/10 "2003-08-26T13:03:57Z")
Which part? Being in Iraq? Controlling the oil fields? Being allies with Isreal? Or just pointing out these facts? ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/11 "2003-08-26T13:28:00Z")
Maybe the “we could do anything we wanted at this point” part? ---
**Author:** ![T.Mehr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@T.Mehr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Mehr)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/12 "2003-08-26T13:39:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > \*\*Which part? Being in Iraq? Controlling the oil fields? Being allies with Isreal? Or just pointing out these facts? \*\* :smack: Actually why is this thread called **the real reason for war finally surfaces**? It was clear all along for those willing to see. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/13 "2003-08-26T14:50:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > \*\*Which part? Being in Iraq? Controlling the oil fields? Being allies with Isreal? Or just pointing out these facts? \*\* Exactly, they are statements of fact, nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/14 "2003-08-26T15:09:16Z")
…Or maybe it’s a good opportunity for an Arab nation to begin having commercial ties with Israel? Do the Iraqi people hate Israelis? I don’t know what attitudes towards Israel are in Iraq. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the Iraqis are more open-minded than most, simply because Saddam opposed Israel, and the people hated Saddam. So IF a commercial pipeline can be built that gets Iraqi oil to market faster, benefitting the Iraqi people, and this has the secondary benefit of creating some economic ties between Arabs and Israelis, then isn’t this a good thing? I agree that the logistics of it sound suspect, given the amount of sabotage going on. But in principle, I don’t understand how all of you can be so instantly dismissive of this idea. If part of the reason for overthrowing Saddam is to try and reshape the dysfunctional culture of the Middle East, then isn’t this plan at least worth considering in that light? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/15 "2003-08-26T15:09:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by T. Mehr \* > \*\*:smack: > > Actually why is this thread called **the real reason for war finally surfaces**? It was clear all along for those willing to see. \*\* Because **Razorsharp** is saying the real reason for war was that the eeevil Jews tricked America to go to war so that Israel could get Iraqi oil. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/16 "2003-08-26T15:25:43Z")
I’m totally convinced by Razorsharp’s incisive and airtight reasoning. I just wish someone could do a little math for me. The war in Iraq has cost, what, 50 billion, so far? With no end to the expenditure in sight. An oil pipeline from Iraq to Israel would save costs on shipping oil from Norway and Mexico. How many decades would it take to make up 50+ billion dollars in costs, assuming an uninterrupted flow of oil? Of course, even without doing the math, I’m utterly sure that this makes economic sense. Or maybe, just possibly, Iraq is a country desperately in need of income. An impartial observer who wasn’t blinded by anti-Zionism, might observe that by shipping oil to Haifa, 40% of the cost of shipping oil to the West would be eliminated, thereby making Iraqi oil an attractive commodity. Not to mention that trade between country tends to reduce tensions and build links of interdependencies that increase regional stability. Naw, Razorsharp’s logic can’t be avoided, I’m sure it’s just a big Zionist conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/17 "2003-08-26T16:00:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Finagle \* > **I’m totally convinced by Razorsharp’s incisive and airtight reasoning. I just wish someone could do a little math for me. The war in Iraq has cost, what, 50 billion, so far? With no end to the expenditure in sight. An oil pipeline from Iraq to Israel would save costs on shipping oil from Norway and Mexico. How many decades would it take to make up 50+ billion dollars in costs, assuming an uninterrupted flow of oil?** No offense, **Finagle** , but it’s obvious you’re not an eeevil Jew. See, the war cost the US 50 billion, but Israel got the oil. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/18 "2003-08-26T16:28:10Z")
**Finagle** , your math does indeed not add up, that is if you use fair play as a starting point. Consider this: Who pays the 50 billion+? The American taxpayer. Who gets the proceeds? the American taxpayer? You think? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/19 "2003-08-26T16:55:23Z")
Well to be fair the American tax payer also gets: Removal of a strategic threat in a critical region Removal of their military presence in Saudi Arabia Application of local presence to reduce Syria/Iran support of Hamas et. Al. Potential to link Iraqi oil production to the Mediterranean avoiding the Gulf and its issues (tenuous) Potential second large source of light sweet crude for world markets. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718/20 "2003-08-26T16:59:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > …Or maybe it’s a good opportunity for an Arab nation to begin having commercial ties with Israel? I don’t believe anyone has asked the Iraqis if they want to sell their oil to Israel, **Sam.** I mean, it’s not like they have a representational government that can speak for them, is there? > [@](#): > > So IF a commercial pipeline can be built that gets Iraqi oil to market faster, benefitting the Iraqi people, and this has the secondary benefit of creating some economic ties between Arabs and Israelis, then isn’t this a good thing? Not if the people who own the oil don’t want it to be sold that way. Unless you want to admit that the oil of Iraq is not owned by the _Iraqis_… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alas-the-real-reason-for-war-finally-surfaces/197718.md?page=2)