# Albert Einstein believed in God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623 "2009-01-29T22:09:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/1 "2009-01-29T22:09:50Z")
So Richard Dawkins insists that Albert Einstein was an atheist and a pantheist. In fact, he says, > [@Dawkins](#): > > Does it seem that Einstein contradicted himself? That his words can be cherry-picked for quotes that support both sides of the argument? No. So there you have it. In Dawkins’ world, there’s not a single Einstein quote which suggests other than that Einstein was an atheist and a pantheist. So then, we might ask, what about this quote: > [@Albert Einstein](#): > > I am not an atheist, nor should I be called a pantheist. To me, that quote suggests that Einstein was not an atheist, nor should he be called an pantheist. Of course I may be wrong. It’s possible that I’m just misinterpreting it. Perhaps top scientists have a secret code in which “I am not an atheist” means “I am an atheist.” That’s about the only circumstances in which Dawkins would not be an outright liar. One must also wonder what coded message is contained in this: > [@Albert Einstein](#): > > The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books…That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. And in this: > [@Albert Einstein](#): > > Anyone who is not lost in rapturous awe at the power and glory of the mind behind the universe is as good as a burned-out candle. So, to conclude, Einstein believed in a thinking being who created the universe and established the laws of nature. Sounds like a God to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/2 "2009-01-29T22:36:07Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So Richard Dawkins insists that Albert Einstein was an atheist and a pantheist. In fact, he says, > So there you have it. In Dawkins’ world, there’s not a single Einstein quote which suggests other than that Einstein was an atheist and a pantheist. That quote alone does not support your argument. At the least, you need to provide a quote showing which side of the argument Dawkins thought Einstein came down on. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/3 "2009-01-29T22:36:44Z")
Really? I thought he was an agnostic. I am probably laboring under that misconception because of this quote: > [@Albert Einstein](#): > > My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/4 "2009-01-29T22:36:56Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So, to conclude, Einstein believed in a thinking being who created the universe and established the laws of nature. Sounds like a God to me. I do not presume to know Einstein’s views on religion to any great extent, however I do know that he disdained the concept of a personal, interventionist god: > [@](#): > > The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot. > But I am persuaded that such behavior on the part of the representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. > [@](#): > > I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. So it seems a bit simplistic to me to claim that ‘Einstein believed in god’, just as it probably was to Einstein to call himself an atheist, or pantheist (though I seem to recall him expressing sympathies for Spinoza’s kind of pantheism). The clearest we can say is probably that he had his own views on the matter, and was reluctant to align himself with pre-existing philosophies, which seems well in keeping with what little I know of him. To try to settle this debate either way in absence of a reliable means to contact the dead seems hardly doable, and if we had such a means, we probably wouldn’t have a reason for this debate. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/5 "2009-01-29T22:38:57Z")
Um … so what? Isaac Newton was easily as great a scientist as Einstein, but he (a) spent a great deal of time studying alchemy, (b) was an unrepetent douche to Leibniz, and © died a virgin. It doesn’t follow that alchemy, douchebaggery, or eternal virginity are good things. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/6 "2009-01-29T22:39:23Z")
And if he did (or didn’t)? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/7 "2009-01-29T22:42:02Z")
> **[Einstein's letter: God and superstition](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/may/13/peopleinscience.religion)** > > An abridgement of the letter from Albert Einstein to Eric Gutkind from Princeton in January 1954, translated from German by Joan Stambaugh > [@Einstein](#): > > The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/8 "2009-01-29T22:42:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Um … so what? Well, you know how science worshippers are: they always blindly believe in whatever they’re told. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/9 "2009-01-29T22:45:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Well, you know how science worshippers are: they always blindly believe in whatever they’re told. Leave _South Park_ out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/10 "2009-01-29T22:49:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Um … so what? > > Isaac Newton was easily as great a scientist as Einstein, but he (a) spent a great deal of time studying alchemy, (b) was an unrepetent douche to Leibniz, and (c) died a virgin. It doesn’t follow that alchemy, douchebaggery, or eternal virginity are good things. It’s still valid to debate his beliefs, however, even if they are entirely and totally inconsequential to the issue as a whole; he has certainly said a lot of things that show what an incredible amount of careful thought went into his personal beliefs, and I can’t help but admire that. Besides, if I only discussed things of consequence on here, I’d probably have just short of five posts by now. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/11 "2009-01-29T22:49:52Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > And in this:So, to conclude, Einstein believed in a thinking being who created the universe and established the laws of nature. . No he didn’t, and a few minutes of Googling would bring up the Einstein quotes where he explictly rejects conventional notions of “God”. Whatever Einstein was, he was not a theist, and anyone with a passing knowledge of Einstein would know this. Why is it that you somehow didn’t know this? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/12 "2009-01-29T22:51:30Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > It’s still valid to debate his beliefs, however, even if they are entirely and totally inconsequential to the issue as a whole; he has certainly said a lot of things that show what an incredible amount of careful thought went into his personal beliefs, and I can’t help but admire that. > > Besides, if I only discussed things of consequence on here, I’d probably have just short of five posts by now. 😛 Yes, but despite your screen name, you do not make a practice of opening threads with arguments so specious they smack of either utter disingenuousness or … well, never mind, this isn’t the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/13 "2009-01-29T22:53:36Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So, to conclude, Einstein believed in a **thinking being** who created the universe and established the laws of nature. Sounds like a God to me. I’m not an expert on Einstein’s intimate religious beliefs but I’ve read 2 biographies (and watched several lectures on him.) Einstein said he believed in “Spinoza’s God” which is a non-interventionist type of god. It’s an idea that’s closer to “deism” that Thomas Jefferson believed. Therefore, I think you’re stretching the truth by inserting the phrase “thinking being” into your conclusion. I think it’s intellectually dishonest to say Einstein anthropomorphised God into a “thinking being.” Also, why does any of this Einstein trivia matter at all? Virtually all cosmologists today studying the origins of the universe and dark matter dark energy are atheists. I don’t think their scientific progress would be affected by their religious beliefs or absence of it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/14 "2009-01-29T22:54:29Z")
Not [zero belief in any deity] OR not [belief in all-encompassing universal deity] != belief in [**ITR Champion** ’s definition of the Christian] god. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/15 "2009-01-29T22:55:24Z")
The wiki article is good: > **[Albert Einstein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein#Religious_views)** > > Albert Einstein (/ˈaɪnstaɪn/ EYEN-styne; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German: \[ˈalbɛɐt ˈʔaɪnʃtaɪn\] ⓘ; 14 March 1879 – 18 April 1955) was a German-born theoretical physicist, widely held to be one of the greatest and most influential scientists of all time. Best known for developing the theory of relativity, he also made im In... I think we can see that Einstein rejected the idea of a _personal_ God, but was open to some sort of possible higher being. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/16 "2009-01-29T22:58:48Z")
[Sets watch]Hmm… the bi-weekly Atheists bad, Theists good thread. [The Constitution does not forbid religious symobls on government property](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=501446) [Isn’t it time for atheists to stop telling the Galileo myth?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498780) [Multiple universes don’t refute intelligent design](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=492239) [Dawkins on Martin Luther King, Jr.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=488228) [Charles Darwin was a Racist and Eugenicist](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=479449) [Why blame religion for Alan Turing’s prosecution?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=476309) [The atheist double-standard](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459330) … Smart people can believe very stupid things; even if Einstein did believe in god (which he didn’t) it wouldn’t mean anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/17 "2009-01-29T23:09:13Z")
I think we all realize that whether he believed in God or not isn’t evidence either way about the existence of God (that would be the “appeal to authority” fallacy IIRC). It’s still interesting in and of itself to some folks (me included). If you don’t care, well, then I’m not sure why would one open this very clearly-titled thread. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/18 "2009-01-29T23:10:14Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I think we all realize that whether he believed in God or not isn’t evidence either way about the existence of God (that would be the “appeal to authority” fallacy IIRC). > > It’s still interesting in and of itself to some folks (me included). If you don’t care, well, then I’m not sure why would one open this very clearly-titled thread. Certain posters get their thread opened on the strength of their reputations, good and bad. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/19 "2009-01-29T23:11:33Z")
> [@Einstein](#): > > The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. Ah, this changes things. Obviously Einstein is a racist pedophile Commie, and General Relativity should be replaced with a Theory of Intelligent De-time. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623/20 "2009-01-29T23:27:08Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I think we all realize that whether he believed in God or not isn’t evidence either way about the existence of God (that would be the “appeal to authority” fallacy IIRC). > > It’s still interesting in and of itself to some folks (me included). If you don’t care, well, then I’m not sure why would one open this very clearly-titled thread. Yes. If the OP is correct in his characterization of what Dawkins (who clearly set out to pick fights) said about Einstein (and I have not checked whether he’s accurately characterized Dawkins), Dawkins seemingly invoking Einstein’s beliefs in support of Dawkins’s own theories, then the OP is not appealing to Einstein’s authority to prove theism, but calling Dawkins out on his own appeal to authority in support of atheism. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-believed-in-god/483623.md?page=2)