# Albert Einstein had great difficulties with mathematics when he was a youth. True? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703 "2006-08-29T19:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/1 "2006-08-29T19:22:09Z")
Was young Einstein really a math ta rd or not? I keep seeing this “fact” repeated, and now [from this wiki article on the mathematician Euler, the following statement is made](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematician) > [@](#): > > Not only is calculation not a big part of some areas of mathematics research, but people who have had an important influence on mathematics do not necessarily have any extraordinary ability in adding or multiplying numbers. For instance, _Albert Einstein_, whose ideas had a significant impact in geometry, had great difficulties with mathematics when he was a youth. See mental calculators to read about prodigies performing impressive mental calculations. [Eisnteins wiki doesn’t say anything about this.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein) It says > [@](#): > > When Einstein was five, his father showed him a pocket compass, and Einstein realized that something in “empty” space acted upon the needle; he would later describe the experience as one of the most revelatory events of his life. He built models and mechanical devices for fun and showed great mathematical ability early on. > > In 1889, a medical student named Max Talmud (later: Talmey) introduced Einstein to key science and philosophy texts, including Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason. Two of his uncles would further foster his intellectual interests during his late childhood and early adolescence by recommending and providing books on science, mathematics and philosophy. > > Einstein attended the Luitpold Gymnasium, where he received a relatively progressive education. He began to learn mathematics around age twelve; in 1891, he taught himself Euclidean plane geometry from a school booklet and began to study calculus. While at the Gymnasium, he clashed with authority and resented the school regimen, believing that the spirit of learning and creative thought were lost in such endeavors as strict memorization. ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/2 "2006-08-29T19:36:24Z")
I heard this was an UL. I am sure there is some backing to the story out there. But from various sites, and my previous reading, not true. [Albert Einstein](http://myhero.com/myhero/hero.asp?hero=einstein) > [@](#): > > He also excelled in mathematics; at 11 he studied Physics at the university level. But he was an independent thinker and hated the regimentation of the German school system. > > While there, he wrote papers that would revolutionize the study of physics. One of these papers was developed from an essay he wrote when he was 16. This 1905 publication is known as the ‘Special Theory of Relativity.’ It introduced an entirely new concept of time and motion. As a mathematical addition to this theory, From [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein) > [@](#): > > Einstein attended the Luitpold Gymnasium, where he received a relatively progressive education. He began to learn mathematics around age twelve; in 1891, he taught himself Euclidean plane geometry from a school booklet and began to study calculus. While at the Gymnasium, he clashed with authority and resented the school regimen, believing that the spirit of learning and creative thought were lost in such endeavors as strict memorization. ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/3 "2006-08-29T19:37:38Z")
Sorry, you already had the Wiki article. I ain’t no Einstein. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/4 "2006-08-29T19:46:50Z")
I think part of the UL is his remark to a newspaperman about his math being to bad that he had someone else do his taxes. [His papers online.](http://www.alberteinstein.info/manuscripts/) [A short biography.](http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1115185.htm) > [@](#): > > By the age of 12 he was studying calculus. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/5 "2006-08-29T20:08:03Z")
This is Einstein’s [diploma](http://www.einsteingalerie.de/portreat/abitur.html). Switzerland uses grades from 1 to 6, the higher the better. German: 5 French: 3 English: - Italian: 5 History: 6 Geography: 4 Algebra: 6 Geometry: 6 Descriptive Geometry\*: 6 Physics: 6 Chemistry: 5 Natural History: 5 Artistic Drawing: 4 Technical Drawing: 4 - translation according to Wikipedia, although the German term seems more general than the description given there ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/6 "2006-08-29T20:57:52Z")
[QUOTE=FormerMarineGuy] I ain’t no Einstein. [/QUOTE] 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/7 "2006-08-29T22:02:26Z")
Somewhere I read that the ranking of grades - that is, whether larger or smaller numbers are better - switched during the time he was in school. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/8 "2006-08-29T23:01:26Z")
I’m not einstein in any way shape or form but I have a bachelors degree in math and I got a D in Calculus when I was in High School. I would still flunk out of high school calculus at this point. Anybody independantly looking at my transcript would think I was _bad_ at high school calculus, but truth of the matter is that I simply did not do the homework I did not feel was necessary to complete my understanding of the matter. That left a rather idiotic looking pattern on my high school transcripts of actually me having the worst grades in classes I was best at. So, analysis of Einstein’s mathematical abilities as a child should probably avoid things like grades or degrees and look for a subjective written opinion of his analytical abilities that actually discusses. I’d guess such a thing is probably very hard or impossible to find at this point. Currently grades are typically very heavily influenced by homework, and homework is typically graded based on assigned work and not just attempted work. As a person who has several times eked out a B- in a class with homework being worth 20% of the grade by doing a fifth of the assigned homework and getting 95% on tests, I always feel compelled to argue that grades are never and can never be a sole indicator of aptitude in any field. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/9 "2006-08-29T23:03:51Z")
[QUOTE=groman] I’m not einstein in any way … a subjective written opinion of his analytical abilities that actually discusses. [/QUOTE] Hee hee, I meant to say “that actually discusses why the abilities were judged that way” ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/10 "2006-08-29T23:25:44Z")
I found [this](http://www.einsteinatoz.com/faq.shtml). The first question addresses the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/11 "2006-08-30T00:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] Somewhere I read that the ranking of grades - that is, whether larger or smaller numbers are better - switched during the time he was in school. [/QUOTE] I read the same thing. > [@](#): > > So how did the myth that he failed high school start? > > Easy. In 1896, which was Einstein’s last year at the school in Aargau, the school’s system of marking was reversed. > > A grading of “6”, which had previously been the lowest mark, was now the highest mark. And so, a grading of “1”, which had been the highest mark, was now the lowest mark. > > And so, anybody looking up Einstein’s grades would see that he had scored lots of grades around “1” - which under the new marking scheme, meant a “fail”. [From here](http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1115185.htm) ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/12 "2006-08-30T19:15:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Minkowski taught at the Zurich Federal Institute of Technology when Einstein was a student. In fact, Einstein attended several of the courses he gave but didn’t create a good impression at the time. Minkowski described him as a “lazy dog” who “never bothered about mathematics at all.” > **[Minkowski, Hermann (1864-1909)](http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Minkowski_Hermann.html)** > > Hermann Minkowski was a German mathematician, born in Lithuania, who played an important part in the early development of the theory of relativity. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/albert-einstein-had-great-difficulties-with-mathematics-when-he-was-a-youth-true/370703/13 "2006-08-30T21:21:28Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] Somewhere I read that the ranking of grades - that is, whether larger or smaller numbers are better - switched during the time he was in school. [/QUOTE] So have I. See my contribution (Post #5) in this previous thread: [Did Einstein really flunk?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=253537) (And you can read the rest of that thread, while you’re at it.)