# Alberta, Natural Resources, and the Rest of Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 3, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872 "2025-05-03T00:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/21 "2025-05-03T09:10:21Z")
> [@MacDoc](#): > > You miss the point entirely. > The rights to the resources may be granted or taken away by the sovereign state of Canada. You are mistaken, but let’s say you aren’t. Alberta votes to separate as it legally can do. What do you think is going to happen to what’s under the ground? Of course Alberta will take that with them, along with all the current obligations that exist from the Federal government such as those related to aboriginal rights along with all the Federal land within its borders. That is the most likely scenario. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/22 "2025-05-03T12:03:16Z")
Believe all you want I’m wrong but the evidence is right in the article you posted. Unlike with Quebec which was a near thing then, future secession votes will be required to be more than 50%+ 1 and assuming that is possible then it will come down to negotiating terms from currency to indigenes. Taking lessons from other regimes that were entirely oil dependent. > Over-dependence on natural resources can lead to various economic and environmental problems, including the “resource curse,” reduced economic diversification, and unsustainable resource management practices. This dependency can result in economic volatility, lower growth, and potentially hinder the development of other sectors. Alberta could have done what Norway did and built an immensely wealthy Heritage fund benefitting all Norwegians. Alberta did not. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/23 "2025-05-03T14:33:22Z")
> [@MacDoc](#): > > Believe all you want I’m wrong but the evidence is right in the article you posted. > Unlike with Quebec which was a near thing then, future secession votes will be required to be more than 50%+ 1 and assuming that is possible then it will come down to negotiating terms from currency to indigenes. > **[Provinces Leaving Canada Part II: The Clarity Act - LawNow Magazine](https://www.lawnow.org/famous-cases-provinces-leaving-canada-part-ii-the-clarity-act/)** > > Learn about the Clarity Act, a federal legislation governing the referendum and secession process of provinces in Canada. How it works. It seems the ‘Clarity Act’ doesn’t provide much clarity. It could mean 50%+1 or it could mean a supermajority or it could mean anything parliament wants it to mean. Parliament could say they won’t negotiate even if it is a clear question and a supermajority. They have lots of outs in the act. I can’t imagine that the relationship would become better if they did that. Alberta just declares itself independent and uses a similar law that Quebec has on its books that says it has a right to self determination. But what would happen then? You’d send troops into Alberta. What’s that going to look like? There are enough troops in Canada to hold Balzac maybe, but not much more. (Balzac, population of 1. But they’re a tough sob!) > Taking lessons from other regimes that were entirely oil dependent. > > Over-dependence on natural resources can lead to various economic and environmental problems, including the “resource curse,” reduced economic diversification, and unsustainable resource management practices. This dependency can result in economic volatility, lower growth, and potentially hinder the development of other sectors. > Alberta could have done what Norway did and built an immensely wealthy Heritage fund benefitting all Norwegians. > Alberta did not. What is the purpose of this argument? I could counter than Norway didn’t have to support the rest of Northern Europe and kept all its revenue for itself. Or I could say Canada has the same opportunity with all of its resources, which are as immense as Alberta’s, to do the same as Norway and it hasn’t. All Canada has done is put itself into crippling debt through years of Liberal misrule. You had the opportunity to fix it and yet did not. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/24 "2025-05-03T14:51:43Z")
Fix it by nationalizing petrochemicals? Yep the Libs blew it. Quit repeating the “crippling debt” tripe…I’m a Keynsian…and the boohoo poor oppressed Alberta is getting old as well. You were given goverance of the wealth and gave it away to the multi-nationals making you a laughing stock and leaving the rest of Canada with the clean up bill. 🤬 > **[Norway’s Oil Savings Just Hit $1 Trillion. Alberta Has $17 Billion. What...](https://thenarwhal.ca/norway-s-oil-savings-just-hit-1-trillion-alberta-has-17-billion-what-s-gives/)** > > Norway’s sovereign wealth fund just hit a grand total of US $1 trillion dollars. > **[A Tale Of Two Oil States: Norway & Alberta, Canada - CleanTechnica](https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/23/a-tale-of-two-oil-states-norway-alberta-canada/)** > > Both Alberta and Norway derive profits from the sale of oil. However what they have done with the profits affects their climate change positions. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/25 "2025-05-03T15:09:49Z")
> [@MacDoc](#): > > Fix it by nationalizing petrochemicals? Please provide a cite to the section of the Constitution which gives Parliament the power to nationalise provincial property, assigned to the provinces by s 109 of the _Constitution Act, 1867_: > [@](#): > > **Property in Lands, Mines, etc.** > > **109** All Lands, Mines, Minerals, and Royalties belonging to the several Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick at the Union, and all Sums then due or payable for such Lands, Mines, Minerals, or Royalties, shall belong to the several Provinces of Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick in which the same are situate or arise, subject to any Trusts existing in respect thereof, and to any Interest other than that of the Province in the same. Confirmed for the four western provinces by the _Constitution Act, 1930_ in the four Natural Resources Transfer Agreements, such as this paragraph for Alberta: > [@](#): > > **Transfer of Public Lands Generally.** > > **1.** In order that the Province may be in the same position as the original Provinces of Confederation are in virtue of section one hundred and nine of the British North America Act, 1867, the interest of the Crown in all Crown lands, mines, minerals (precious and base) and royalties derived therefrom within the Province, and all sums due or payable for such lands, mines, minerals or royalties, shall, from and after the coming into force of this agreement and subject as therein otherwise provided, belong to the Province, subject to any trusts existing in respect thereof, and to any interest other than that of the Crown in the same, and the said lands, mines, minerals and royalties shall be administered by the Province for the purposes thereof, subject, until the Legislature of the Province otherwise provides, to the provisions of any Act of the Parliament of Canada relating to such administration; any payment received by Canada in respect of any such lands, mines, minerals or royalties before the coming into force of this agreement shall continue to belong to Canada whether paid in advance or otherwise, it being the intention that, except as herein otherwise specially provided, Canada shall not be liable to account to the Province for any payment made in respect of any of the said lands, mines, minerals or royalties before the coming into force of this agreement, and that the Province shall not be liable to account to Canada for any such payment made thereafter. Confirmed as well by s. 92A of the _Constitution Act, 1867_, added to the Constitution as part of the Patriation package: > [@](#): > > **Laws respecting non-renewable natural resources, forestry resources and electrical energy** > > **92A** (1) In each province, the legislature may **exclusively** make laws in relation to > > - (a) exploration for non-renewable natural resources in the province; > - (b) development, conservation and management of non-renewable natural resources and forestry resources in the province, including laws in relation to the rate of primary production therefrom; and > - (c) development, conservation and management of sites and facilities in the province for the generation and production of electrical energy. Where do you see the federal Parliament has the power to unilaterally alter the Constitution of Canada and take over the natural resources? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/26 "2025-05-03T15:13:32Z")
> [@MacDoc](#): > > Fix it by nationalizing petrochemicals? Why not nationalize the lumber industry? Or the auto industry? Why Alberta’s industry? Why are you fixating on oil as the industry that should have been nationalized? Alberta provides money to the rest of Canada that it doesn’t get back. Or are you going to deny that? Money it earns from the Oil industry. Are you going to deny that? Then why hasn’t Canada taken those ‘royalties’ and created a fund from them like Norway? Did they use the money to pay for things like health care, etc, like your article says Alberta squandered its money on? Don’t say Alberta did or did not do this or that when everyone else in Canada had the exact same opportunity and still does. You want to nationalize petrochemicals?: [Quebec can meet Europe’s gas needs: producers](https://www.naturalgasworld.com/quebec-can-meet-europes-gas-needs-producers-100431) I wonder why the Liberals won’t nationalize that? ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/27 "2025-05-03T15:28:48Z")
It’s past my bedtime by a fair margin but I will leave you with this. > **[Want a green energy future? Nationalize Canada's oil industry | Martin Lukacs](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2014/dec/03/want-a-green-energy-future-nationalize-canadas-oil-industry)** > > Martin Lukacs: Canada’s oil corporations have made a profitable mess of the country: it’s time to put them under public, democratic control ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/28 "2025-05-03T15:34:34Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Alberta just declares itself independent and uses a similar law that Quebec has on its books that says it has a right to self determination. But what would happen then? You’d send troops into Alberta. What’s that going to look like? There are enough troops in Canada to hold Balzac maybe, but not much more. (Balzac, population of 1. But they’re a tough sob!) It’s tautologically true that the number of troops in Canada is greater than the number of troops in Alberta. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/29 "2025-05-03T15:37:51Z")
This illustrates one of the main fallacies with secession. There numbers assume the economies are connected like lego bricks, and can just be snapped apart at the clear divisions. Not so. These regional economies are linked by infrastructure, families and businesses that cross internal borders, and all sorts of things you don’t notice until Wexit happens. Sure, it’s easy to say “okay, now Alberta supplies air traffic controllers and maintains its stretch of the highway formerly known as Trans-Canada,” but the logistics in making this happen are not so simple. A newly independent Alberta would find itself missing rather a lot of essential aspects for a while, and find that the cost to get up to speed more than offsets any financial benefits of independence for quite a few years. Most of the people advocating for it are pretty vague in the details. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/30 "2025-05-03T15:42:48Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Of course Alberta will take that with them, along with all the current obligations that exist from the Federal government such as those related to aboriginal rights along with all the Federal land within its borders. That is the most likely scenario. Well, no, the overwhelmingly likely scenario is that no such vote will take place. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/31 "2025-05-03T15:59:35Z")
> [@MacDoc](#): > > It’s past my bedtime by a fair margin but I will leave you with this. Nothing in that article addresses the constitutional issue. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/32 "2025-05-03T16:47:48Z")
> [@MacDoc](#): > > If you are not a sovereign state you don’t “own” your resources…control over them is granted. Canada is a federal country. Sovereignty in Canada is divided between the federal government and the provinces. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/33 "2025-05-04T00:50:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, no, the overwhelmingly likely scenario is that no such vote will take place. A referendum vote is almost assured given the decreased numbers needed to trigger it. **Whether the referendum results in a majority is anyone’s guess.** That the rest of Canada will allow separation is wildly unlikely. It wants the egg that the goose lays, even though it hates the goose, and will use any means to keep the eggs coming in. At that point Alberta will have to make a decision on unilaterally declaring its independence. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/34 "2025-05-04T00:54:36Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Whether the referendum results in a majority is anyone’s guess. It’s not. It’s doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/35 "2025-05-04T01:05:15Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > It wants the egg that the goose lays, even though it hates the goose, and will use any means to keep the eggs coming in. I’d like to make a gentle observation. Your point of view is so at odds with my experience, and that of other posters, that I think you really would benefit from exposing yourself to a broader range of people and sources. I’m not Albertan, but my great-great-great-grandmother is buried in Alberta, as are my grandparents; my aunt and some cousins live there, and I have friends and colleagues from there, as well. I first visited in 1972. I don’t think I’m completely ignorant about the issues in Alberta, or the rest of Canada’s attitudes towards Alberta. Alberta is not All That. True, you have oil & gas wealth, agricultural wealth, and other sources of wealth. What you don’t seem to realize is that the rest of Canada is pulling its weight, too: we’re not actually as dependent on Alberta as you seem to think. Look up some stats if you don’t believe me. We don’t actually hate Alberta. Why would we? We’re puzzled at some of the cultural disconnect, such as the weird admiration for the world’s most incompentent leader, DJ Trump, but we actually consider you a pretty fundamental part of Canada. Only you and eastern BC are really (to my mind) the West; only you and Sask & MB are really (to my mind) the Prairies. Your post comes across as paranoid, and not reality-based. I think it might be healthy to look at WHY you believe in this extreme situation, and then really consider whether you might be wrong. I hope I don’t come across as condescending. You seem like an intelligent person, but your beliefs aren’t tracking with the reality I’ve experienced, nor with that of anyone else here, nor with anyone else I know from Alberta. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/36 "2025-05-04T01:58:26Z")
Did you not miss the crack about being racist just in this thread? > **[Albertans say province is the least respected by the rest of Canada | News](https://dailyhive.com/calgary/alberta-least-respected-province-canada)** > > While Canadians grow closer under tariff woes, a new poll shows Albertans think most of the country does not respect the province.  With 24% of Albertans feeling they are respected by the rest of Canada, I would suggest that my perception is closer to reality. Although, according to the poll below, I’d think Quebecers should be even more upset. But I guess it is nice to be number two in this case. The poll is a couple years old. > **[Canadians choose their least favourite province -- it's Quebec](https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/canadians-choose-their-least-favourite-province-its-quebec/)** > > Quebec appears to be exceptionally unpopular among Canadians polled by Leger Canada who, when asked which province is their least favourite outside their own, put Quebec at the top of the list. Frankly, I’m surprised at how many people feel the same as I do. **RickJay** says that a referendum won’t pass. I’d normally agree with that, but now, given the sentiment that Canada will only ever elect parties that actively work against our interests, I’m not so sure that it won’t pass. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/37 "2025-05-04T02:07:55Z")
You keep saying that the rest of Canada hates Alberta, and when asked for cites, you keep on producing cites that Alberta, and you in particular, hate the rest of Canada. Do you see the disconnect, here? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/38 "2025-05-04T02:16:48Z")
The article says that Alberta feels like the rest of Canada hates them (which tracks what you feel). But it does **not** say that the rest of Canada actually does hate them. 10% of Canadians say that Alberta is their least-favourite other province. But that says nothing about “hating”—if I like all 10 provinces, I still like my least favourite. If I hate a bunch of them, I’m not singling Alberta out. For me, Alberta is annoying, in that its tendency toward the right wing is very much at odds with my world view. But it’s not like I think Albertans are bad people. (Though I have to say, the only person who ever seriously expressed the belief that I was in league with Satan was an Albertan, so it’s a certainty that some Albertans hate me.) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/39 "2025-05-04T02:37:08Z")
So the election is over and much of this thread seems to have turned into a debate with Uzi about Albertan secession. Could that maybe be taken to another thread and let this one become the Canadian equivalent of the “Keir Starmer tries to lead the UK”? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/40 "2025-05-04T03:19:55Z")
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe split it into a thread about “Alberta - Canada relations” around post 852? But I’d prefer this thread to peter out with the election news, and start a new thread going forward to discuss Carney and his government. I’d also prefer the new thread to be titled in the same pattern as the old one about Trudeau: “How’s Carney doing, Canada?” A bit more neutral than “attempts to lead”, which I find patronising. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=3)