# Alberta, Natural Resources, and the Rest of Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 3, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872 "2025-05-03T00:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/444 "2026-01-10T04:26:19Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Paying half of all you earn is fair? Quick calculation from the Wealthsimple tax calculator site shows that if you have 5,000,000 employment income, 5,000,000 Capital gains, 5,000,000 interest income and 5,000,000 other income for a total of $20,000,000 income, your after tax income in $12,322,083, and your effective tax rate is 38.4% With no deductions or tax shelters. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/445 "2026-01-10T07:06:48Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > When have I ever called you MAGA? I was answering a person who essentially did call anyone who disagreed with them as MAGA. You stepped into that conversation. I’m not going to split hairs here when conversations cross posters. Maybe call them out for calling people who are pro-independence as MAGA? Or calling conservatives that as well? Because you won’t keep Canada together by alienating people. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > I’ve also spent a lot more time than you’ve deserved Everyone can make that claim. Just agree with my position and we’ll all be fine. No? > [@Gorsnak](#): > > Canada has moved _away_ from socialism since the 80s, not towards it. My mistake, Canada didn’t nationalize the economy, it bureaucratized it. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/446 "2026-01-10T11:56:44Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Paying half of all you earn is fair? Our claim is that Alberta can provide the services for far less than your ‘fair’ system. Is it unfair that people will have to pay less taxes for the same services? > > Or, are the taxes you claim are fair just a way to keep them dependent on the government? While there are improvements, of course I’m proud of our tax system. Roughly; 0-$57,375 of your earnings are taxed 14.5%. The next $57,375 is taxed 20.5%, the next 26%, then 29%, until it caps out at 33% no higher. This cripples none. If you are making such high earnings then those additional dollars should be subject to higher rates. Being angry that Albertans earn higher then other Canadians, and thus are taxed at the high rates all other Canadian high earners must pay, doesn’t evoke my sympathy. > [@Uzi](#): > > I was answering a person who essentially did call anyone who disagreed with them as MAGA. You stepped into that conversation. I’m not going to split hairs here when conversations cross posters. I’ll feel free to address this then. Anyone who listens or pays **a minor amount of attention** to these Alberta separatist groups will find out that they are MAGA. Here’s what [Cameron Davies, the president of the separatist “Republican Party of Alberta,”](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/albertas-independence-movement-is-a-global-rarity-right-wing-separatists) (a US citizen and former US Marine) says: > (snip) in a recent interview that he’d be focusing future outreach efforts exclusively on right-leaning partners, and not centrist and centre-left groups like the U.S. Democratic Party. > > “I’ve never seen evidence that the Democratic side really values the ideals of freedom and independence, so I don’t think (meeting with Democrats) would be a really valuable use of my time,” said Davies. > > Davies said he’ll be rooting for Republican candidates in November’s midterm elections and is planning engagements with the “freedom loving” right-wing governments of El Salvador and Argentina. Not a lie, they actively court the present Trump administration with [white house visits](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/alberta-separatists-treason). Anyone interested can just go and listen to these people’s interviews or go watch their rallies on youtube. To deny that they are MAGA is to deny what your own eyes and ears tell you. That’s not on me. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/447 "2026-01-10T14:33:11Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Everyone can make that claim. Just agree with my position and we’ll all be fine. No? You can disagree with basic mathematics. You can’t expect anyone to take you seriously if you do. I repeatedly showed the numbers. Alberta currently has just shy of $60B in non-federal-transfer revenue. You propose to decrease provincial income tax via a flat tax system, and not to replace federal income tax or the GST. That will leave you with revenue in the mid-50s. Alberta currently spends $79B on provincial programs. At least some federal spending would need to be replaced, which is going to result in a total outlay in the mid-90s based on your optimistic assumptions of what that replacement spending would be. You wave your hands about attracting new business, but your total oil revenues now are just $15B. You could double that and barely make a dent in things. I’m not asking you to agree with my position. I’m asking you to agree that 95 is a larger number than 55. So far you have refused. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/448 "2026-01-10T14:49:26Z")
Sure, if you read APP position paper, they say we aren’t going to eliminate taxes overnight. If we just take the same taxes as today, we end up with a minimum of $20B extra to apply locally which could include reducing taxes. Or pay off whatever our share of the national debt will be in short order. Do you at least agree with the $20B surplus number as a starting point? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/449 "2026-01-10T14:52:53Z")
I suspect it’s at least somewhat optimistic, but not ridiculously so. I’ve seen other estimates around $15B. We can use $20B if you like, but remember that you’ve currently got a ~$6B provincial deficit (based on the latest Alberta fiscal update) to cover with that first. But now you’re talking about adding federal income tax rates to your current provincial rates, and replacing the GST with a new PST? That’s quite a flip-flop from the “we might need a 10% flat tax as we transition to no income taxes at all.” ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/450 "2026-01-10T14:57:09Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Quick calculation from the Wealthsimple tax calculator site shows that if you have 5,000,000 employment income, 5,000,000 Capital gains, 5,000,000 interest income and 5,000,000 other income for a total of $20,000,000 income, your after tax income in $12,322,083, and your effective tax rate is 38.4% Is that the Alberta calculation? Out of curiosity, what is the Quebec calculation? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/451 "2026-01-10T15:04:38Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Being angry that Albertans earn higher then other Canadians, and thus are taxed at the high rates all other Canadian high earners must pay, doesn’t evoke my sympathy. Why do Albertans make more than other Canadians? It must be something that will make them just as successful and high earners if they were an independent country. I wonder what that is? And why should other parts of Canada, many of which could have the same results but chose not to, expect us to send money from our hard earned incomes to them so they don’t have to work so hard or make the tough choices? Sorry, I don’t feel much sympathy for them if we choose independence and choose not to continue to send them money. > [@orcenio](#): > > I’ll feel free to address this then. Anyone who listens or pays **a minor amount of attention** to these Alberta separatist groups will find out that they are MAGA Not agreeing with you does not make a person MAGA. This is just fearmongering and slander. There is a Communist Party of Canada based in Toronto. Shall I feel free to tag all Liberals with their views? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/452 "2026-01-10T15:13:31Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > That’s quite a flip-flop from the “we might need a 10% flat tax as we transition to no income taxes at all.” And quite clearly stated was MY thought on what we’ll likely end up with prior to my finding the APP documentation. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/453 "2026-01-10T16:55:45Z")
That’s an Alberta calculation, including Federal and Provincial (Alberta) tax. For Quebec, I threw the same figures into WealthSimple calculator and got an effective tax rate of 43.2% Just for fun- If you make say, $60,000 in employment income, according to WealthSimple, your effective tax rate is: Alberta: 21.1% Quebec: 25.7% Ontario: 21.7% BC: 20.7% ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/454 "2026-01-11T17:01:22Z")
OTTAWA — [A new poll shows](https://www.pollara.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Pollara_WestCDASeparatism_RptBrf.pdf) that tensions with Ottawa are declining in all four western provinces, with perceptions of the federal government improving especially rapidly in Alberta. [Western alienation has declined to a four-year low: poll](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/western-alienation-has-declined-to-a-four-year-low-poll/ar-AA1TSxLw?ocid=BingNewsVerp) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/455 "2026-01-11T17:04:46Z")
Perhaps the especially stupid example unfolding just to their south is waking folks up? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2026, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/456 "2026-01-13T11:47:05Z")
Here’s a monkey wrench in the gears of the Alberta seperatist movement: > **[‘Our consent matters’: Blood Tribe says it will fight ongoing push for...](https://www.ctvnews.ca/calgary/article/our-consent-matters-blood-tribe-says-it-will-fight-ongoing-push-for-albertas-separation/)** > > Efforts to promote the separation of Alberta from Canada are a far cry from OK, the Blood Tribe says. From the item: > [@](#): > > “The Blood Tribe stands with other Treaty Nations in firm opposition to this petition and all the efforts to undermine and erode the foundations of our Treaty relationship.” > > “Alberta cannot even ask a separation question without our consent,” it continued. > > “The Blood Tribe has made its position known to the Alberta Government and is actively exploring all available legal avenues to protect and uphold our Treaty and Aboriginal Rights, our Treaty relationship and our traditional territory.” > > Blood Tribe chief and council said, “Our Treaties are sacred and our consent matters.” > > They said, “Our rights are not negotiable.” ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/457 "2026-01-16T15:34:39Z")
The Edmonton Journal with an interesting article: [What Alberta separatist leaders are telling supporters at secession petition events - At a Red Deer event, Alberta Prosperity Project touts alliance with the Parti Quebecois, and claims it has support from the U.S. State Department](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/alberta-separatists-line-up-for-hours-to-sign-petition) If you are in anyway uncertain for what these people stand for, just listen to what they are saying. Just pay a minor amount of attention to what they are tell each other. > She said the feds support the “jihadist extremist population,” and pointed to a recent Supreme Court decision that struck down minimum sentences for possessors of child pornography. > > “These aren’t our values,” she said, to much applause. > > And she said communist and socialist parties are on school campuses, trying to recruit students. > > “The Marxists, they’re here and trying to get our kids.” What totally well adjusted people. Not at all filled with wild conspiracy and delusions. Apparently they are in active talks with Trump’s people who offer support, but cannot make guarantees to Alberta statehood. (how sad) > As well, the APP has claimed three separate meetings with the U.S. State Department. Modry spoke about it in Red Deer, and current CEO Mitch Sylvestre and APP lawyer Jeffrey Rath spoke about it at a town hall in Didsbury the week previous. > > “Every level is supportive of Alberta sovereignty,” Modry said of the claimed meetings with the State Department. > > This is how the APP is laying it out for its supporters. > > Last week, Rath said there is no chance for statehood, but that the messaging from south of the border is that “they want to see Alberta taken out from under the control of Communist China.” A lot of APP messaging suggests that the current government has alliances with Beijing, and it’s a major selling point at town halls. What a bunch of horseshit. I remember talking about this type of foreign interference from the US last February and March. > [@Would US troops fire on Canadian civilians?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/146): > > In Canada, we have a problem with foreign interference in our politics (mostly China and Russia), or our civil order (India’s assassination of dissidents), the US could do INSANE amounts of violations if it desired so. We are not a closed society like Cuba, if the CIA decided to inject a little chaos in any sphere of Canadian public society they could do so without much effort or trace. > [@Would US troops fire on Canadian civilians?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/546): > > [CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-annexation-destabilizing-canada-1.7479890) where they outline the exact type of foreign interference concerns we outlined in this thread. Social media campaigning, operative recruiting of disillusioned/impoverished youth. Here’s a quote outlining the need to limit push-back by removing non-Trump aligned bureaucrats. > > > Elcock said U.S. agencies would have to worry about their own people talking. > > > > “There is a long relationship between Canada and the United States and there will still be people around who would not necessarily approve. So I don’t think they could with any certainty carry out something like that — that wasn’t a very, very closely held operation,” he said. > > > > But those calculations could change if the Trump administration continues to remove and replace personnel in the agencies down to the managerial and operational level. > > > > “The more you get people who buy into the current U.S. president’s philosophy of life,” said Fadden, “the more he shifts professionals out of the intelligence community and puts his own people in, the more worrisome it becomes.” > > The fascist’s playbook through and through. Worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/458 "2026-01-16T17:21:01Z")
> Kathy Flett, a self-described Alberta patriot and a major voice in the APP movement, > > … > > “Everything is wrong with Canada,” she said, adding that Alberta and Saskatchewan were given no choice or chance to negotiate when they entered Confederation — that the two provinces were, in her words, “colonized by Ottawa.” I mean … yes? You don’t get to choose to exists before you exist. And we’re going hard on the Marxist bit of course, so it will be exciting to see the “poisoning of our western blood/culture” echoes in 2 or 3 years. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/459 "2026-01-16T17:24:14Z")
> Modry, like Rath and Sylvestre the week before, urged supporters to tell their neighbours about the benefits of independence, and not to look to the mainstream media. He said to tell them that their taxes would be a fraction of what they pay now, and that there will be a chance to ponder the possibility of eliminating property tax. Ponies - they forgot to mention all the ponies as well. Though to be fair they do say “ponder the possibility” but you can do that any time. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2026, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/460 "2026-01-16T23:50:12Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > What totally well adjusted people. Not at all filled with wild conspiracy and delusions. Apparently they are in active talks with Trump’s people who offer support, but cannot make guarantees to Alberta statehood. (how sad) Yes, what radicals. [“What happens to immigrants after Alberta separates”](https://youtu.be/WQcOjZeimQE?t=360) Essentially saying we will have the type of selection process Canada used to have before it went insane. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2026, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/461 "2026-01-17T00:34:27Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Here’s a monkey wrench in the gears of the Alberta seperatist movement: If Alberta wants to get a pipeline to the northern BC coast, it is going to involve utterly disregarding and then outright violating the rights of First Nations along the way so I’d imagine separatist Alberta’s attitude towards the Blood Tribe would be no different. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2026, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/462 "2026-01-17T04:00:50Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > If Alberta wants to get a pipeline to the northern BC coast, it is going to involve utterly disregarding and then outright violating the rights of First Nations along the way You seem to not understand it is the Federal government ONLY who has the power to over-ride what groups along a pipeline route want. Other’s have to make deals. Just like in previous pipelines, there were many deals made with first nations groups and other groups not wanting to make a deal. People only seem to care about the latter and not the denied benefit to the former. Why is that? Could it be you just don’t want pipelines? How about Alberta’s rights to develop its resources? Don’t give a shit, I’d imagine. > [@DWMarch](#): > > I’d imagine separatist Alberta’s attitude towards the Blood Tribe would be no different. But why use your imagination when you an hear what they actually say? [First Nation’s Options](https://youtu.be/CSlGNtQSJvk?si=-RSG_ujbJn2Gno9-&t=528). Don’t let it get in the way of your fearmongering, though. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2026, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/463 "2026-01-17T04:29:52Z")
Before gorsnak gets upset - a quick summary: 1. Native’s are retained under the Canadian system. Nothing changes. 2. Native’s can choose to move under an Albertan equivalent system. But as we have no desire to make our citizens life miserable, it will likely have better outcomes. 3. Native’s can make a new deal with Alberta that benefits them. The choice is theirs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=24)