# Alberta, Natural Resources, and the Rest of Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 3, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872 "2025-05-03T00:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/41 "2025-05-04T17:08:34Z")
I didn’t see this posted anywhere yet and this seems like the appropriate place for it. A bunch of lunatics in Alberta **[held a rally in front of the legislature](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-seperation-rally-legislature-may-3-1.7526053)** demanding that Alberta secede from Canada. They were waving Alberta flags along with some US flags. And the reason for all the angst? Because Canada re-elected a Liberal government! That of course makes absolutely no logical sense, but it’s explainable by the fact that much of Alberta is basically Trump Lite, so logic and facts don’t enter into it. Meanwhile fellow lunatic Danielle Smith has proposed legislation that would make it easier to hold referendums, just in case, you know, someone wanted to hold a referendum about something. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/42 "2025-05-04T17:19:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Meanwhile fellow lunatic Danielle Smith has proposed legislation that would make it easier to hold referendums, just in case, you know, someone wanted to hold a referendum about something. _(Points at Brexit)_ It’s a lot easier for populist demagogues to hijack a nation’s policies with direct democracy like referendums. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/43 "2025-05-04T17:20:47Z")
If Smith had the numbers to separate she wouldn’t be lowering the amount of signatures needed to trigger a constitutional referendum on separation from 600,000 to 177000. This, like most of her stunts, is a scapegoating distraction from her governance. The type of people who are embittered and want to vent is large. Smith is loudly jumping on their side and blaming “the rest of Canada”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/44 "2025-05-04T17:32:41Z")
One of their complaints is that environmentalists both federally and in some provinces like Quebec aren’t letting them build the cross-Canada pipelines that they want. Aside from their continuing unsustainable obsession with fossil fuels, how the hell do they think that separating will help them build pipelines in what will become a foreign country? These people have the brains of a turnip. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/45 "2025-05-04T18:35:40Z")
One big difference is that Quebec has direct access to the ocean, while Alberta is totally landlocked. If Alberta secedes, it would require the full cooperation of Canada in order to export any of its natural resources. Ship is the only practical way to ship lots of oil, and the only customer that it could send oil to directly with pipelines would be the USA, no other nations. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2025, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/46 "2025-05-04T21:44:38Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > That the rest of Canada will allow separation is wildly unlikely. It wants the egg that the goose lays, even though it hates the goose, and will use any means to keep the eggs coming in. At that point Alberta will have to make a decision on unilaterally declaring its independence And here, you’re being delusional. We didn’t react like this when Quebec actually held referenda on separation, and we won’t do it if Alberta holds one. “OH BUT THE OIL!!!” Who else are you going to sell it to? Donald Trump? It is to laugh. Alberta oil is already some of the most expensive oil in the world. With the coming economic collapse, you’ll be lucky to sell it at a loss just to keep things limping along for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/47 "2025-05-05T08:33:02Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Add to that, Alberta will be land-locked. All of its exports would have to travel overland through one hostile nation or the other. Alberta is already land-locked having to travel overland through one hostile entity or another. The difference being an independent Alberta can close the border. Want that train to go to the east? Negotiate. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/48 "2025-05-05T08:52:30Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > And here, you’re being delusional. We didn’t react like this when Quebec actually held referenda on separation, and we won’t do it if Alberta holds one. Argue apples and oranges. Quebec’s referendum failed. The actions of the Federal government in promoting Canada led to: [Sponsorship scandal - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal) So, to say that Canada didn’t pull out the stops to prevent Quebec from leaving is misleading. > Who else are you going to sell it to? Donald Trump? It is to laugh. Alberta oil is already some of the most expensive oil in the world. With the coming economic collapse, you’ll be lucky to sell it at a loss just to keep things limping along for a few years. Peak oil, low prices, expensive to produce, all issues that seem to come and go. We continue to sell the oil. Getting the obstructions out of the way would make it easier. Keeping money sent to Ottawa would fast track diversification. But if what you say is true, then you should be happy to see us go so you don’t have to support us with transfer payments, etc. But if that every happened, I’m pretty sure that the Equalization payment system would be shut down lickety split. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/49 "2025-05-05T15:15:50Z")
Cite for “hostile”? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/50 "2025-05-05T15:20:15Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Argue apples and oranges. Quebec’s referendum failed. The actions of the Federal government in promoting Canada led to: [Sponsorship scandal - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal) > So, to say that Canada didn’t pull out the stops to prevent Quebec from leaving is misleading. Oh Noes! The Government _\>Checks notes\<_ ran ads promoting the unity of the nation! Everyone knows that’s the first step towards violent suppression of the Provinces! ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/51 "2025-05-05T18:16:45Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > This, like most of her stunts, is a scapegoating distraction from her governance. Honestly, $10,000+ Alberta taxpayer bucks for meet n’ greet is a bargain. Trump’s meeting price now is, no doubt, several times that. The tech bro FAANGs donated ~1mil each just to attend Trump’s inauguration. Smith got an early bird price (I know it was probably mostly overhead costs related to her entourage and whatnot. Smith wouldn’t be stupid enough to grease palms). [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/uEaQSgiGyiM/maxresdefault.jpg "Alberta premier's visit to Trump resort cost more than $10,000, documents reveal") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEaQSgiGyiM) ETA: But then again are these costs paid to her and team’s staying/eating at Mar-a-lago? Then yes, the money ended up in Trump’s pocket. He charges sky rocket prices to his security staff even to collect USA government funds too. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/52 "2025-05-05T18:33:29Z")
Anyone else remember the WCC party (Western Canada Concept, waggishly referred to as the Water Closet Campaign) from the '80s? > **[Western Canada Concept](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Canada_Concept)** > > The Western Canada Concept was a Western Canadian federal political party founded in 1980 to promote the separation of the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia, and the Yukon and Northwest Territories (which included present-day Nunavut) from Canada in order to create a new nation. > The party argued that Western Canada could not receive fair treatment while the interests of Quebec and Ontario dominated Canadian politics. The party gained popularity in Alberta when wes... ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/53 "2025-05-05T18:48:58Z")
Heck, I remember BC premier Amor de Cosmos campaigning to pull the province out of Confederation in1873! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/54 "2025-05-05T18:58:43Z")
> The party ran 20 candidates in the [1986 Alberta general election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Alberta_general_election), but won less than one percent of the popular vote. > > In 1987, a group of Alberta members who were dissatisfied with the party’s leadership and direction left the party to establish the [Western Independence Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Independence_Party). If they couldn’t get traction for this in the 80s, when Hate for Trudeau Sr and the National Energy Plan was fresh in their minds, I’m not going to worry too much about it today. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/55 "2025-05-06T00:47:50Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > If they couldn’t get traction for this in the 80s, when Hate for Trudeau Sr and the National Energy Plan was fresh in their minds, I’m not going to worry too much about it today. Do you live in Alberta? If not, then I agree, why would you worry about it? How would it affect you if Alberta leaves? When do you think about Alberta other than to inflict onerous laws to prevent resource extraction and we squawk about it? So, if it wasn’t part of Canada you’d live your life no differently than you do today, right? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/56 "2025-05-06T01:36:05Z")
[Smith’s Address to Alberta.](https://youtu.be/yjgWM2dAOx0?si=DyZwb8MGNcII9Dka) Probably good to watch it even if you don’t like her as she articulately speaks to Alberta’s frustration. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/57 "2025-05-06T03:56:22Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Do you live in Alberta? If not, then I agree, why would you worry about it? How would it affect you if Alberta leaves? When do you think about Alberta other than to inflict onerous laws to prevent resource extraction and we squawk about it? So, if it wasn’t part of Canada you’d live your life no differently than you do today, right? Wrong. Very, very wrong. Alberta isn’t going to secede, but hypothetically if it did, Canada would lose nearly 13% of its population and much of its natural resources and tax revenue. It would be a smaller, poorer, and weaker country. British Columbia would be cut off from the rest of the nation. The Canada Pension Plan would be undermined – Danielle Smith in her lunacy has already declared that Alberta is entitled to 60% of it, which is absurd, but it would certainly lose some portion of its assets. Quebec might be emboldened to try the same thing if Alberta succeeded. And all of that is just for starters. **That’s** why I care. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/58 "2025-05-06T04:13:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wrong. Very, very wrong. Alberta isn’t going to secede, but hypothetically if it did, Canada would lose nearly 13% of its population and much of its natural resources and tax revenue. It would be a smaller, poorer, and weaker country. British Columbia would be cut off from the rest of the nation. The Canada Pension Plan would be undermined – Danielle Smith in her lunacy has already declared that Alberta is entitled to 60% of it, which is absurd, but it would certainly lose some portion of its assets. Quebec might be emboldened to try the same thing if Alberta succeeded. And all of that is just for starters. > > **That’s** why I care. - Population: What does population have to do with anything? Would we be better with 100M? Or 1B? How does population size matter? - Natural resources: Belong to the province, not to Canada. Not being able to develop them is the issue, so again, why would this be important to you if you continue to vote against their development or elect governments that do? - Tax revenue: Here we are. The real reason. You don’t want us to develop the resources, but you’ll take the tax revenue when we manage to scrape some of it out of the ground. - Canada Pension: Even if we just walk away and leave the CPP whole to Canada, Alberta would be ahead with revenue it no longer sends to Ottawa. But Canada wouldn’t be. Again, this is an argument about taking our money to support someone else. - Quebec separation: The reason you don’t want Alberta to separate is so that Quebec won’t. Not a convincing argument. I’m not criticizing you, I’m just pointing out these reasons are entirely self serving or don’t make sense. Please answer why these reasons benefit Albertans? If a referendum occurs it is them you’ll have to convince as they are the ones making the decision. If you make these arguments, you’ll lose. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/59 "2025-05-06T04:16:50Z")
We understand some people in Alberta and Saskatchewan do not much like the Liberals, and haven’t since Pierre. But this “western succession” thing is silly. British Columbia does not share these sentiments. Nor do most Albertans. Despite Preston’s unhinged threats of Alberta succeeding if a Liberal government was democratically elected, and Smith seeking to make political hay, there is little reason to believe this might actually happen. A few dozen people kvetching won’t change that. Since the squeakiest wheels are often greased in Canada, it is hard to blame these Albertans for this display. But it is performative. I think Alberta has some legitimate grievances. This will not much advance those discussions. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/60 "2025-05-06T04:38:03Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > How does population size matter? Why is the US a richer and more powerful country than Canada? And why is its greater wealth closely correlated with its greater population? > [@Uzi](#): > > Natural resources: Belong to the province, not to Canada. Effectively they belong to both. The province, and Canada as a whole, both benefit, but they benefit in different ways. > [@Uzi](#): > > Tax revenue: Here we are. The real reason. You seem to think “tax revenue” is some sort of self-serving evil and that you’ve uncovered a major gotcha here. They aren’t, and you haven’t. Tax revenue is fundamental to how a nation’s economy works. > [@Uzi](#): > > Canada Pension: Even if we just walk away and leave the CPP whole to Canada, Alberta would be ahead with revenue it no longer sends to Ottawa. What revenue? The CPP is funded by worker contributions, who then benefit from it when they retire. The CPP is successful and sustainable because its scale gives it access to lucrative investments a smaller fund wouldn’t have. There’s no doubt that Alberta would demand a big chunk of its assets. The smaller it becomes, the less sustainable it is. It would be a loss both for Alberta and for Canada. > [@Uzi](#): > > Quebec separation The reason this is relevant is that Quebec gets a lot of benefits from being part of Canada. A smaller, poorer, and divided country makes a less attractive partner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=4)