# Alberta, Natural Resources, and the Rest of Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 3, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872 "2025-05-03T00:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/81 "2025-05-07T05:17:27Z")
Fraser Institute …yeah right. 🤬 I don’t see per capita adjusted for Canada’s population growth > Between 2014 and 2024, Canada’s population grew by approximately 3.5 million people. In 2014, the population was about 36.6 million, and by 2024 it was estimated to be around 41 million, as reported by Worldometer. That’s just about 10% - the highest by far in the OECD tho Australia is close. > **[World Bank Open Data](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.GROW?locations=OE)** > > Free and open access to global development data > that enact policies detrimental to resource development. > Is that code for dismissal of AGW and its consequences? Alberta has pissed away it’s wealth by mismanagement of royalties and failure to diversify and left the rest of Canada with a huge clean up cost. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/82 "2025-05-07T05:34:57Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why are you not recognizing that it is true? Alberta has money taken from them to distribute to others that buy votes for politicians that enact policies detrimental to resource development. That’s not happening? And how does that make it a “vassal”? Instead of part of a nation? Taxes are a thing. As an independent nation you’d still be sending away all your money and oil, you just wouldn’t get any say in what happens or any investment in return. Just the national version of a cow to be milked. And then there’s your assumption that “resource development” - for a resource that should be, and is in the process of being abandoned - is some innately desirable thing. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/83 "2025-05-07T06:37:48Z")
As I know, but non-Albertans may not, there is a resistance to Danielle Smith and the UCP. Found this while surfing: > **[ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - IT'S TIME FOR RESISTANCE](https://www.abresistance.ca/enough_is_enough_it_s_time_for_resistance)** From the page: > [@](#): > > On Saturday, May 10th, citizens across Alberta will rise together in a province-wide “Enough Is Enough” Rally to demand accountability, integrity, and justice from the government that claims to represent them — and it’s happening in Edmonton, Calgary, Lethbridge, and Medicine Hat, with the main rally set for 1:00 PM at the Edmonton Legislature. > > This movement is a collaboration between Enough Is Enough and Alberta Resistance ( [abresistance.ca](https://abresistance.ca/)), fueled by frustration but driven by hope — hope for an Alberta that puts people before profit, truth before propaganda, and unity over division. **The rally** , inspired by powerful video messages titled “Enough Is Enough” ([Watch it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Llh267NZs)) and “Alberta Anti-UCP Rally” ([Watch it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nmi70GvjKc)), **invites all Albertans to confront the dangerous direction our province is headed under Premier Danielle Smith.** Emphasis added by me. I don’t know how big this movement is, but it is clear that not all Albertans are on board with Smith, the UCP, and Alberta separatism. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/84 "2025-05-07T06:59:17Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > As I know, but non-Albertans may not, there is a resistance to Danielle Smith and the UCP. From the link > > **Alberta Police Force** : The push to replace the RCMP with an Alberta Police Force is reckless and unwanted. It duplicates services, costs billions, and lacks local accountability. Most communities don’t want it — but the UCP continues anyway, pushing ideology over practicality. Source: CBC These people believe that a police force that is local to Alberta would have less local accountability to the RCMP. > > **Lowered Referendum Threshold — A Danger to Democracy** > > One of the most misunderstood threats to Alberta’s democracy is the UCP’s recent lowering of the signature threshold required to trigger a referendum. With the bar now set at just 10% of voter turnout and no riding-level requirements, the UCP can push major constitutional changes — policing, or pensions — with minimal public scrutiny. The lower threshold is to force a referendum on an initiative, not a threshold to pass the initiative. So, their complaint is that allowing citizens to directly vote on something is somehow anti-democratic. When direct voting is essentially the definition. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/85 "2025-05-07T07:04:06Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > So, their complaint is that allowing citizens to directly vote on something is somehow anti-democratic. It is in practice if not in theory; it’s _much_ easier for demagogues and con artists to force through extreme or dishonest agendas though direct democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/86 "2025-05-07T07:13:43Z")
> > **“Your Voice for Choice” — What It Means** > > This rally is more than protest — it’s a movement. “Your Voice for Choice” means reclaiming power. It means choosing action over silence. It means refusing to accept corruption, discrimination, and deceit as the new normal. And it means supporting the launch of recall efforts against this government’s worst offenders. Oh, man. How could I have missed this one? They see absolutely no contradiction here. Referendums are bad, can’t have the people directly deciding how things should work, but we’ll use a similar process to kick out elected representatives. Must be liberal logic. And you wonder why they frustrate us so. ---
**Author:** ![TheTooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@TheTooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTooth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/87 "2025-05-07T11:31:38Z")
Why change the rules regarding petitions? Surely someone whose popularity is as high as Smith’s could clear the bar as is. I’ve never heard anyone in Ottawa say these hateful things about us. All I hear are accusations. I’m reminded of Ben Shapiro’s claims about Democrats holding positions I’ve never heard any Democrat utter. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/88 "2025-05-07T12:54:40Z")
That’s true of some states in any republican system. I’m in the state with the highest GDP per capita in the US, and we subsidize Alabama. And despite some of the current voting patterns, I don’t have a fundamental problem with that. If and when oil returns to $20/bbl, will the monetary direction of flow reverse? What if we actually attain a zero fossil fuel world? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/89 "2025-05-07T13:58:58Z")
I think the thing that confuses me is merging the provincial identity with an ethnic one. My ancestors settled in Ontario and came west to MB, SK, AB, and BC. The Alberta ones were no different from the others. Everyone pays taxes. Everyone gets government services. Every farmer feels hard done by, regardless of province. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/90 "2025-05-07T15:15:04Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why are you not recognizing that it is true? Alberta has money taken from them to distribute to others that buy votes for politicians that enact policies detrimental to resource development. That’s not happening? Alberta is not a vassal state. You may wish to look up what that term means. Vassal states don’t et a vote, don’t have powers enumerated to them in the Constitution, and they don’t get billions in subsidies for their biggest industry, either - last year the Canadian government poured at LEAST $20 billion into the oil industry in the form of subsidies. Guess what province saw the most of that? Going overboard with ridiculous exaggerations is not an argument; it’s no different from people saying Pierre Poilevre is a nazi, or that everyone they don’t like is guilty of “treason,” or that any government taxing them is “communist.” Yes, the fact Alberta has many people with high incomes means money flows to people with lower incomes and they tend to live in other provinces. There was once a day Alberta was extremely dependent on central Canada and those days may come again, and if they do, I as an Ontarian will be 100 percent fine with that, because Albertans are my brothers and sisters. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/91 "2025-05-08T06:25:59Z")
Then there is this which Quebec also must face if it ever went alone. [https://i.imgur.com/vH5yJKH.mp4](https://i.imgur.com/vH5yJKH.mp4) ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/92 "2025-05-08T08:09:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Alberta is not a vassal state. You may wish to look up what that term means. Vassal states don’t et a vote, don’t have powers enumerated to them in the Constitution, and they don’t get billions in subsidies for their biggest industry, either - last year the Canadian government poured at LEAST $20 billion into the oil industry in the form of subsidies. Guess what province saw the most of that? Why thank you for those subsidies. Subsidies get bandied around like without them the oil industry wouldn’t be able to manage on their own. > **[The running list of Federal Fossil Fuel Subsidies in Canada in 2022 -...](https://environmentaldefence.ca/federal-fossil-fuel-subsidies-tracking/)** > > Reports Take action now! Tell the federal government that its time to stop funding fossils. Help put a Stop to Fossil Fuel Subsidies Most of these are decarbonization subsidies that the government wants the oil industry to do and then paid them to do it. EDC is listed as a subsidy even though it makes a profit on its loans and investments. No public money is used. It mentions the loan for the Coastal Link LNG pipeline, a 51% Indigenous owned project. Liberal heads must be exploding in how to justify cancelling that one! People keep mentioning the Trans Canada pipeline like it was some favor to Alberata. It would have been built for $7B with no public funds if the government hadn’t added extra conditions for approvals part way through the process that caused the company building it to say, “FU”. Then the government had to buy it or reap the consequences of having it cancelled after saying that it was in the national interest to have it completed. They caused the issues, they tried to fix it with government bureaucracy and it cost all of us $34B. So, please stop bringing this up as Trudope and company was solely responsible for that clusterf\*\*k. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/93 "2025-05-08T19:39:57Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why thank you for those subsidies. I’m not taking credit for them and you can add a bunch of non sequiturs all day. Alberta is not a vassal of Canada. Words mean things. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/94 "2025-05-08T22:30:48Z")
Well we are a bunch of old codgers here so yeah sure we remember those blowhards. Its the current wining blowhards that disgust me. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/95 "2025-05-09T01:55:30Z")
> **In 2024, Canadian taxpayers were burdened with at least $6.03 billion in fossil fuel subsidies,** with Alberta, British Columbia, and Saskatchewan contributing more than $2.5 billion through royalty reductions and tax exemptions. The subsidies, including those in Alberta, amounted to roughly $214 per taxpayer annually. Alberta’s specific oil and gas royalties collected in 2022 reached a record $28 billion, [according to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers (CAPP)](https://www.capp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/The-Economic-Impact-of-Canadian-Oil-and-Gas.pdf). > > Elaboration: > > - **Fossil Fuel Subsidies:** > > Canada’s fossil fuel subsidies, including those in Alberta, are a significant financial burden on taxpayers. > > - **Alberta’s Role:** > > Alberta, along with other provinces, provides significant tax and royalty benefits to the oil and gas industry, according to reports by Environmental Defence. > > - **Record Royalties:** > > In 2022, Alberta collected a record $28 billion in oil and gas royalties, [according to CAPP](https://www.capp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/The-Economic-Impact-of-Canadian-Oil-and-Gas.pdf). > > - **Subsidies Impact:** > > **These subsidies, including those in Alberta, represent a considerable cost to the Canadian taxpayer,** potentially impacting other important government programs. Walks like a duck …etc 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/96 "2025-05-09T02:13:19Z")
You brought up the ‘subsidies’ as a way to say that Canada supports Alberta and thus we are not a vassal state. I pointed out that all of them were either self serving to Canada or weren’t actually subsidies but loans. The Canadian government walks a line between saying they hate oil to placate their voters and benefitting from the sale of oil without having to make the effort of explaining why Canada needs to sell it. Want to see the benefits of Oil and Gas, see MacDoc’s post. > [@MacDoc](#): > > Walks like a duck …etc 🤨 Er, what is it you are trying to explain? You’ve linked to a CAPP document that explains the enormous benefits of the oil industry, like 900,000 jobs with an average of 2X income (who all pay taxes on that income btw, and 5% of Canada’s GDP, etc. And then some number of $214 per taxpayer that seems to have arrived from space. Are you missing links? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/97 "2025-05-09T04:47:50Z")
What do you think “vassal state” means? You’re clearly not using it to refer to a literal vassal state, since Alberta is not a state in that sense, and not a vassal in that sense, either. Do you just mean “not fully sovereign,” like every other province? ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/98 "2025-05-09T04:58:09Z")
No Uzi - YOU clicked on the CAPP link now extolling all the jobs…and the high pay …nice to get the high pay courtesy your province giving away value. > **In 2024, Canadian taxpayers were burdened with at least $6.03 billion in fossil fuel subsidies,** with Alberta, British Columbia, and Saskatchewan contributing more than $2.5 billion **through royalty reductions and tax exemptions.** > > The subsidies, including those in Alberta, amounted to roughly $214 per taxpayer annually. > > > Canada’s fossil fuel subsidies, including those in Alberta, are a significant financial burden on taxpayers. This is hard to comprehend?? It’s one reason your heritage fund is so low. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/99 "2025-05-09T06:01:49Z")
Maybe someone else can explain what he is trying to say? I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872/100 "2025-05-09T12:22:54Z")
An interesting article: > **[Alberta has long accused Ottawa of trying to destroy its oil industry. Here’s...](https://theconversation.com/alberta-has-long-accused-ottawa-of-trying-to-destroy-its-oil-industry-heres-why-thats-a-dangerous-myth-255908)** > > Has Ottawa facilitated or obstructed the spectacular post-1990 growth of oilsands production? The evidence is clear: the federal government has been a major oilsands booster. What say you, @Uzi ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alberta-natural-resources-and-the-rest-of-canada/1017872.md?page=6)