# Alcohol fuel distilation
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 2, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126 "2004-05-02T06:55:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 6
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126/1 "2004-05-02T06:55:55Z")
Hey all you chemists of the STMB. I know if I have an Idea usually a few dozen smarter people have already had it and discounted it.
That said, I know that one of the reasons ethenol is not viable as a fuel is that it takes more energy to make it than it provides. Then it hit me, alcohol freezes at a lower temp than water does and corn is generally grown in areas that freeze pretty hard in the winter.
My idea is; ferment the corn sludge in the summer when it is nice and warm, then when winter comes let it freeze up and scoop the slush into a coffee filter like contraption. Gravity and winter do your work for free.
OK now tell me why I am an idiot, I can take it.
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### Author:  [@Ficer67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ficer67)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2004, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126/2 "2004-05-02T07:21:42Z")
I am not an industrial chemist.
My opinion on this idea is that it would probably work for small-scale production, ie: enough fuel for one or two people per year.
Systhesizing billions of gallons of this to fuel a nation would be a different problem.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126/3 "2004-05-02T13:17:48Z")
> [@EvilGhandi](#):
>
> one of the reasons ethenol is not viable as a fuel is that it takes more energy to make it than it provides
Your statement above is probably true (do a search for “ethanol” here on SDMB in teh last month for some more good threads on that topic with cites to recent research).
But the “more energy to make” agrument is based on the total lifecycle, from the diesel used to drive the tractor to plow the field before planting the corn all theway through to the diesel used to drag the finished ethanol to the gas station. By “make” they don’t mean just the distillation process.
So even if you invent a process that made the distillation very efficient or even net energy-positive, you might still only be improving 5 or 10% of the total process efficiency.
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### Author:  [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126/4 "2004-05-02T13:28:54Z")
Another problem: how free of water can you get the stuff at natural temperatures? 80 proof applejack may be possible, but that’s still about 60% water. You’d have to get it as near the alcohol freezing point as possible. (A very cursory google shows me a figure of -117C). That would be very energy intensive.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126/5 "2004-05-02T15:49:36Z")
> [@EvilGhandi](#):
>
> That said, I know that one of the reasons ethenol is not viable as a fuel is that it takes more energy to make it than it provides.
This conclusion is based largely on [the research of Dr. David Pimentel of Cornell University](http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug01/corn-basedethanol.hrs.html). However, [the USDA disagrees with this assumption](http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/AF/265.pdf):
> [@](#):
>
> Studies conducted since the late 1970s have estimated the net energy value (NEV) of corn ethanol. However, variations in data and assumptions used among the studies have resulted in a wide range of estimates. This study identifies the factors causing this wide variation and develops a more consistent estimate. We conclude that the NEV of corn ethanol has been rising over time due to technological advances in ethanol conversion and increased efficiency in farm production. We show that corn ethanol is energy efficient as indicated by an energy output:input ratio of 1.34.
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### Author:  [@Ficer67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ficer67)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcohol-fuel-distilation/243126/6 "2004-05-03T03:18:03Z")
Since Fear Itself Mentioned it…
I think it costs more energy to produce gasoline, than you could get out of it.