# Alcoholism in Amish communities (No, seriously) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163 "2010-06-22T20:53:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/1 "2010-06-22T20:53:04Z")
I heard from a friend that there is a higher rate of alcoholism In Amish communities than in the general public. First, can someone confirm this? Second, does anyone have any answers/theories as to why this is? Third, has anyone outside of the Midwest US heard of the Amish people? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/2 "2010-06-22T21:05:33Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > I heard from a friend that there is a higher rate of alcoholism In Amish communities than in the general public. First, can someone confirm this? Second, does anyone have any answers/theories as to why this is? > > Third, has anyone outside of the Midwest US heard of the Amish people? My moms side is amish, she left during rumspringa to go work in an aircraft factory, went to college after the war ended and met my dad and got married. I do know that she will drink alcohol, and her mother made hard cider and small beer. And there are a lot of amish in Pennsylvania =) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/3 "2010-06-22T21:16:51Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Third, has anyone outside of the Midwest US heard of the Amish people? _Witness_ was a very popular movie in its time. The tragic school shooting got huge public attention. I think everyone in the US knows at least something about the Amish. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/4 "2010-06-22T21:34:03Z")
The Amish are well known in the Mid-Atlantic states. They cluster around Lancaster, PA (west of Philly). ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/5 "2010-06-22T21:38:28Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Itheories as to why this is? Because there’s nothing else to do, unless you like playing checkers by gaslight. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/6 "2010-06-22T22:10:19Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > I heard from a friend that there is a higher rate of alcoholism In Amish communities than in the general public. First, can someone confirm this? Second, does anyone have any answers/theories as to why this is? I can debunk it: > [@](#): > > Researchers have long suspected that heredity plays a role in some if not all cases, and the Amish present an ideal setting in which to test that hypothesis. Not only does bipolar behavior contrast sharply with the community’s quiet ways, making it easy to diagnose, but a number of confounding factors that might contribute to such behavior are absent: alcoholism, drug abuse, unemployment, divorce and violence are extremely rare. In addition, the Amish have large families (seven children on average) and keep genealogical records worthy of Mendel. Best of all, they represent a closed genetic pool. All 12,500 Amish in Lancaster County are descended from 20 or 30 couples who emigrated from Europe in the early 1700s, and only a handful of outsiders have ever married in. > > Though manic depression is no more common among the Amish than other groups, Egeland’s research turned up 32 active cases. All proved to have family histories of the disease going back several generations. Curiously, all of the 26 suicides documented in the community since 1880 occurred in just four of these families. > > The study published last week focused on one 81-member clan. Fourteen members had been diagnosed with manic depression and another five with other mental disorders. Thanks to unusual cooperation from the family, the researchers were able to obtain blood from each member and then isolate DNA from each sample. Using so-called restriction enzymes, they “cut” the DNA into segments. When they compared gene segments from manic depressives with those from normal family members, they found a discrepancy in a region of chromosome 11. Their conclusion: a gene or group of genes in or near this region confers a predisposition to manic depression. [From here.](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,963725,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![TerpBE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@TerpBE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TerpBE)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/7 "2010-06-22T22:13:41Z")
In the nineties, two amish men (both named Abner Stoltzfus) were arrested for buying cocaine from the Pagan motorcycle gang, and distributing it to their community: [http://www.rickross.com/reference/amish/amish2.html](http://www.rickross.com/reference/amish/amish2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/8 "2010-06-23T00:11:32Z")
As the old joke goes, they’re all named Abner Stoltzfus. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/9 "2010-06-23T00:21:03Z")
I’d expect the entire developed world has heard of the Amish. Did you think they’re some kind of secret or something? They’re interesting and unusual; they get plenty of publicity. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/10 "2010-06-23T00:41:51Z")
The Amish aren’t exactly like most people think when it comes to a perpetual commune community of a strange type of isolationist Christians that shuns modern technology. The goal is to keep the community and family together, not simply to refute everything modern and lots of them mix with regular people and use technology for their work. More to the OP, Amish teenagers are known to be absolute hellions with drug and alcohol abuse and sex because they need to fit it into a short time window. It is known as the _rumspringa_ when 16 year old Amish kids get kicked out of the community and get allowed to do basically whatever they wish for a couple of years. They have ask to be let back into the community later when they made their decision after sampling the sins of the ‘English’ world. [http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/may/amish/](http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/may/amish/) Our own very talented storyteller Scylla posted some good stories about Amish juvenile deliquents years ago and his run-ins with them. Almost everyone has heard of the Amish BTW but not many people know how decadent and sinful they can be. I think they bought their business model from the Puritans. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/11 "2010-06-23T01:20:36Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > More to the OP, Amish teenagers are known to be absolute hellions with drug and alcohol abuse and sex because they need to fit it into a short time window. It is known as the _rumspringa_ when 16 year old Amish kids get kicked out of the community and get allowed to do basically whatever they wish for a couple of years. They have ask to be let back into the community later when they made their decision after sampling the sins of the ‘English’ world. The Amish aren’t really “kicked out” when they turn 16. The Amish come from the Anabapist, who believed that people should wait until they’re old enough to make the choice to join a church before they are baptized. So no one can really “join” the Amish religion until they’re 18. And once they do it’s a pretty big commitment. They’re part of the community and go to church (although the Amish don’t really have churches) and all that, but they still have more freedom. So once they get old enough to leave but not yet really old enough to join the church is when “rumspringa” is. And they don’t have to leave. They can stay at home and live the same life they’ve been living this whole time. > [@](#): > > Third, has anyone outside of the Midwest US heard of the Amish people? I’m from the Midwest but I don’t really think about the Amish being around here that much. There’s some Mennonites, but the Amish are mainly in the eastern part of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/12 "2010-06-23T02:50:57Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m from the Midwest but I don’t really think about the Amish being around here that much. There’s some Mennonites, but the Amish are mainly in the eastern part of the country. There’s an Amish community in Kansas called Yoder, near Hutchinson. A buddy that lives there told me that those folks can drink, carouse and generally raise hell with the best of the non-Amish. I’ve heard some eyebrow-raising stories about Yoder’s people that reminded me that they are only human, too. ---
**Author:** ![Pandora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eada6e/32.png) [@Pandora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pandora)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/13 "2010-06-23T17:25:31Z")
Despite a similar look to outsiders Amish communities vary from each other quite a lot. What is common in one community may be completely absent in another. As with many groups of humans, it is unwise to generalize too much. As previous stated, the Amish are an Anabaptist sect. There is nothing intrinsic in their religious beliefs that bans alcohol. As they are of german descent, homemade beers, ciders and wine are not uncommon in many Amish households at least in this part of PA. And yes, in their own way, they like to party - the younger people especially. That being said, I suspect that full-blown alcoholism with the attendent effects on family life and the ability to work is not common. The Amish function as a true community/family. They are expected to judge themselves and their neighbors as they believe that God would judge them, and to help their families and neighbors to lead a godly life. Anyone who was not fulfilling his obligations to his family and the community will be visited by older respected members of the community who will attempt to guide them back to the “right” path (regardless of whether the cause was too much strong drink, depression, marital or family conflict etc. ). In my expereince, they are nothing if not persistent, and anyone who was truely intent on decenting into an alcoholic fugue would probably have to leave the church and their community before they’d be able to manage it. the Amish depend upon each other within their communities - they support each other, but also expect quite a lot from each other. Note: In some communities, a great deal is tolerated of young people before baptism, and a sort of sex-drugs and rock and roll phase exists. In other communities, rumspringa is much more restrained… in these areas, while the young are allowed to mix with their “english” neighbors and try public schools or regular jobs, wear "modern’ clothes, drive cars etc. they are still expected to attend services, and maintain the basic moral teachings of their community. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/14 "2010-06-23T17:43:00Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > The Amish aren’t really “kicked out” when they turn 16. The Amish come from the Anabapist, who believed that people should wait until they’re old enough to make the choice to join a church before they are baptized. So no one can really “join” the Amish religion until they’re 18. And once they do it’s a pretty big commitment. They’re part of the community and go to church (although the Amish don’t really have churches) and all that, but they still have more freedom. So once they get old enough to leave but not yet really old enough to join the church is when “rumspringa” is. And they don’t have to leave. They can stay at home and live the same life they’ve been living this whole time. More detail available in the documentary film [Devil’s Playground.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Playground_(film)) They can leave and raise hell with the english during rumpsringa, but the kicker is that when the time comes to make a decision, if they choose not to become Amish, they are utterly shunned by the community and even by their own family. That’s a hard thing to take when you don’t have many ties to the outside world ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/15 "2010-06-23T18:25:59Z")
> [@Pandora](#): > > That being said, I suspect that full-blown alcoholism with the attendent effects on family life and the ability to work is not common. The Amish function as a true community/family. They are expected to judge themselves and their neighbors as they believe that God would judge them, and to help their families and neighbors to lead a godly life. . . . and anyone who was truely intent on decenting into an alcoholic fugue would probably have to leave the church and their community before they’d be able to manage it. . . So, what would happen to the wife and children, say, of a man who was kicked out? Would she be allowed to re-marry, or would they have to struggle on alone? ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/16 "2010-06-23T18:35:04Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > if they choose not to become Amish, they are utterly shunned by the community and even by their own family. I have a formerly Amish friend who isn’t shunned because he decided to not join the church when the time came. I guess at least in his community people who leave after they have joined the church are shunned. He did once give an interesting tale of alcohol in Amish life. It’s hard to say with a straight face but he was in a buggy accident. :eek: They got hit by a car. My friend (and the beer they had just bought) were thrown from the buggy and he got a concussion. His friend got a DWI. 😕 I guess you could argue he was “driving” the buggy. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/17 "2010-06-23T18:44:07Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Third, has anyone outside of the Midwest US heard of the Amish people? Of course. And not just because of Weird Al. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/18 "2010-06-23T19:00:58Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > I’d expect the entire developed world has heard of the Amish. Did you think they’re some kind of secret or something? They’re interesting and unusual; they get plenty of publicity. And they build [great wood frames](http://www.heatsurge.com/craftsmanship.cfm). 😉 For electric fireplaces. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/19 "2010-06-23T19:26:21Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > More detail available in the documentary film [Devil’s Playground.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Playground_(film)) > > They can leave and raise hell with the english during rumpsringa, but the kicker is that when the time comes to make a decision, if they choose not to become Amish, they are utterly shunned by the community and even by their own family. That’s a hard thing to take when you don’t have many ties to the outside world No that’s not correct. Not only does it not reflect what was shown in _Devil’s Playground_ but it is contrary to underlying Anabaptist philosophy, which is that religion is a personal choice that cannot be dictated by anyone but you yourself. That is why the tradition of rumsprigga, so that young people will not make the choice out of ignorance of the alternative. The reason for only baptisizing adults is that baptizing children is coercive. If you choose not to join church you are still a member of your family, and welcome in the community as a visitor. If you _join church and then leave it, you will be compeltely shunned_. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163/20 "2010-06-23T21:07:54Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Of course. And not just because of Weird Al. We were nevous about playing \*Amish Paradise \* at my friends wedding. We just waited until his side of the family left. Don’t go saying I was insensitive; he was dancing along with it. Darn, now I have it stuck in my head. _“As I walk through the valley where I harvest my grain . . .”_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alcoholism-in-amish-communities-no-seriously/544163.md?page=2)