# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/244 "2021-10-22T21:10:38Z")
A few additional pieces of information, in this WaPo article, which was updated about an hour ago. First, according to a spokesperson for the sheriff’s office, it may not yet be clear if the incident happened during rehearsal/preparation, or during an actual take. > [@](#): > > “We know they were either preparing to film a particular scene or in process of filming a scene, and that’s when Mr. Baldwin discharged the firearm,” Juan Rios, a spokesman for the sheriff’s office, told The Washington Post. Rios said detectives are investigating how many prop firearms were on the set, how they were handled and what projectiles were discharged. The sheriff’s office expects to have more information early next week. Second, the article notes that Joel Souza has been released from the hospital. > **[Alec Baldwin fired prop gun that killed one crew member, says he is ‘fully...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/21/alec-baldwin-shot-prop-gun-rust/)** > > Actor and producer Alec Baldwin shot two people on a film set in New Mexico on Thursday when he discharged a prop firearm. One person died and another was injured. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/245 "2021-10-22T21:14:49Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > So one thing from this article: > > > There is also the suggestion that at least two bullets were fired, as Hutchins was shot in the stomach and director Souza in the head. > > If true that makes the likelihood of it being something stuck in the barrel less. Directors often sit and camera people may be on a raised platform, depending on what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/246 "2021-10-22T21:17:00Z")
Next week? Jeez. I don’t understand what takes so long to get information. Is there really nobody on that set that can say: “Here’s what happened. We were shooting a scene. Alec pointed the fire arm like he was directed to and the thing went off”. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/247 "2021-10-22T21:21:10Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Is there really nobody on that set that can say: Well, there was the director, but that’s a problem for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/248 "2021-10-22T21:25:32Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Baldwin did not have to aim the weapon. Baldwin did not have to pull the trigger. Are you aware of what a movie is? Or what acting is? If you are rehearsing a scene where your character is supposed to shoot another character, you are going to point a prop gun at that character and pull the trigger. Actors aim guns at other actors and pull the triggers literally hundreds of times every year. Baldwin may have been screwing around in a way he shouldn’t have been; that’s certainly a possibility. And if so, he’s at fault for killing somebody and deserves whatever charges he faces. But it’s also possible that Baldwin was just doing his job and did nothing wrong, even though he was the person who pulled the trigger. It may have been somebody else on the set who screwed up and handed Baldwin an unsafe weapon to use. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/249 "2021-10-22T21:29:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It may have been somebody else on the set who screwed up and handed Baldwin an unsafe weapon to use. That error may also be compounded by the direction he was given. “I really want it too look like you’re aiming right at the camera.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/250 "2021-10-22T21:31:28Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Is there really nobody on that set that can say: “Here’s what happened. I’m sure there were several people who could say “Here’s what happened,” including Baldwin and Souza. What the authorities need to figure out is whether they all agree on what happened. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/251 "2021-10-22T21:31:36Z")
Based on the reporting that’s coming out regarding safety conditions on the set and the history of this gun specifically malfunctioning, Baldwin may want to rethink “fully cooperating with the investigation.” I don’t think he could be charged for actually firing the gun itself, but if he knew that safety precautions were being skirted and that the gun had previously misfired then as a producer he could certainly be held civilly liable and potentially even be subject to a charge of criminal negligence. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/252 "2021-10-22T21:36:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you are rehearsing a scene where your character is supposed to shoot another character, you are going to point a prop gun at that character and pull the trigger. Actors aim guns at other actors and pull the triggers literally hundreds of times every year. Some movies have the actor pressing the gun directly against themselves or another actor when they pull the trigger. That is, the barrel is literally pressed into the other person. Shots like that can’t really be faked by having the gun pointed away from the actor. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/253 "2021-10-22T21:43:53Z")
I’m guessing in such cases, they use a rubber gun. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/254 "2021-10-22T21:48:36Z")
Dunno about a rubber gun, but my understanding is that, following the Brandon Lee accident, any prop capable of chambering any type of round is never pointed at another person. But I don’t work in the movies, so take that for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/255 "2021-10-22T21:49:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > What’s the difference between director of photography and director of cinematography? > > My understanding is that the director of photography is the person who is in charge of the physical condition and operation of the cameras and the supervisor of the camera operators. > > The director of cinematography is the person who makes decisions about what the cameras shoot. They will decide things like what kind of film and filters are used, and where the cameras will be positioned. They’re the person responsible for the “look” of the film footage. Hi. Please accept my apologies, I am trying to be pretty precise with this information. There is no job category called " Director of Cinematography ". The Director of Photography ( D.O.P or - usually- D.P. ) is the artistic eye on the film. The apex of the entire crew below the line. They also head the Camera Department. They chose their Operators and A.C.s ( Assistant Camerapersons ). There are other classifications in the Camera Department such as Loader and Trainee. Typically the 1st A.C. on the A Camera recommends their team. The D.P. has their favorite Operator and the Op has their favorite 1st A.C. These are VERY close quarters we work in, almost cheek-to-jowl and so personalities as well as professional acumen come into play. In the last few IATSE Local 600 contracts, they did away with the requirement that there be an Operator on all sets. Many European D.P.s prefer to operate their own cameras. Some American D.P.s as well and a very small number of Directors. Steven Soderbergh comes to mind. He literally writes, directs, shoots and edits his movies. At any rate, some larger features – and this is NOT a larger feature at the budget being reported-- have no Operator. The D.P. operates. Now, as an Operator I’ve zero perspective. You’re taking a sandwich out of my pocket by eliminating my job category as a requirement. There are serious workflow and mental stress reasons why a D.P. really shouldn’t operate. They’re busy minding the frame AND lighting AND overall feel of the shot. Complex to do when you’re also operating a camera. ( As a Steadicam Operator, I was asked to D.P. a job now and again. I always said no. I mean, it takes every bit of brain power and physical energy to do MY job, no less also tend the lighting… ) The people in the Camera Department directly responsible for the physical condition of the cameras, lenses and all accessories are the Assistant Camerapeople. On a job with many camera systems being used at once it is not unusual to have a Camera Tech whose SOLE responsibility is maintenance. Similarly a show where you’re in the water or windstorms ( real or manmade ) and so on. Frequently a Camera Tech or more than one will sleep days and work nights so that the rest of the Camera Department can awaken to clean and properly functioning gear ) Sorry for the deep dive, this is my passion. Hope some of it is useful in fighting ignorance. On ANOTHER note, I’ve zero love for the tremendously arrogant bully that Mr. Baldwin has turned out to be. He’s also the Producer of record of this film- a fact that may loom rather large when criminal and civil liabilities are being assessed. This said, I don’t believe for a moment that he’s a murderer. He got handed a hot gun and aimed it and used it to either shoot a scene or rehearse it. I detest guns, and yet I must say he’s not liable for the improper preparation and loading of a live round. It is not his job. Let me say that again. It is not his job. A crew - small medium or large- is an army where each person does their job. If they all do it incredibly well, you have small films that are emeralds, diamonds, rubies, take your pick. Projects where everyone made it shine, including actors. Checking the weapon could have been something he wanted to do, but I can’t blame him entirely. In reading the dozens of posts on the professional fora regarding the handling of the weapon, a lot of camera people are thinking that he should have been taught by the Armorer ( if there was one, opposed to the Prop Master/ Mistress ) how to assess what was chambered / loaded into the gun. Gray area. Important as hell right now, but gray area. Juries will decide if he is liable. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/256 "2021-10-22T21:54:33Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > First of all, it’s D.O.P. ( Director of Photography ), and she’s dead. At least get that RIGHT. There are plenty of things to legitimately criticize in this thread. Nitpicking insider jargon isn’t one of them. There’s nothing wrong with a layperson saying “D.P.” and there’s nothing curious about an insider saying “D.O.P.” or vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/257 "2021-10-22T22:13:44Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > It’s also my understanding - and of course I could be wrong - that if the actor opens the firearm, it must then be handed _back_ to the armorer to re-check it before going back again to the actor. So you’d think an actor would be discouraged from doing so. I think the protocol is to trust the armorer, for better or worse. I found this article where Ackles says he was asked to pick his gun, shown how to load it and shown how to **make it safe**. > **[Jensen Ackles Discussed ‘Rust’ Gun Prep Before Alec Baldwin Shooting](https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/jensen-ackles-discussed-rust-gun-prep-before-alec-baldwin-shooting/)** > > Jensen Ackles described his experience on the set of ‘Rust’ days before Alec Baldwin misfired a prop gun, killing Halyna Hutchins — details ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/258 "2021-10-22T22:14:02Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > He’s also the Producer of record of this film- a fact that may loom rather large when criminal and civil liabilities are being assessed. [IMDB lists five “Executive Producers,” six “Producers” (including Baldwin) and one “Co-Producer”](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11001074/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm) for the movie. I suspect the question of whom liability attaches to will be incredibly murky. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/259 "2021-10-22T22:19:28Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > > > First of all, it’s D.O.P. ( Director of Photography ), and she’s dead. At least get that RIGHT. > > There are plenty of things to legitimately criticize in this thread. Nitpicking insider jargon isn’t one of them. There’s nothing wrong with a layperson saying “D.P.” and there’s nothing curious about an insider saying “D.O.P.” or vice versa. As my extensive post addressed, D.P. and D.O.P. are interchangeable. That job position is also referred to as Cinematographer. There simply IS no Director of Cinematography. Period. Any complaints regarding my posts should be taken to the Moderators. Alternately, to The Pit. Please let’s leave this kind of personal stuff out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/260 "2021-10-22T22:22:01Z")
I could not agree more, and I will admit I had not researched the number of people also designated as Producers. An Executive Producer gets the money together. A Producer is either A) Actually producing and responsible for day to day creation or B) called a Producer because it was negotiated in their contract ( Usually to further their goal to join the P.G.A. and produce in the future ), or both. Murky indeed, I could not agree more. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/261 "2021-10-22T22:28:31Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Are you allowed to do that? Not saying you did anything wrong, but wouldn’t they want you to not fool with it? One would think that, if an actor had the slightest concern about the safety of a prop gun, such as the chain of custody before it landed in their hands, they could call the armorer over and have them _show_ that the prop is safe (say, by disassembling it to show that it contained blanks, that the barrel was clear, etc.). That way, the armorer is still responsible for the safe operation but the actor now has confidence in that safety. I’m not sure if this kind of thing is common in practice, though. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/262 "2021-10-22T22:41:10Z")
I would expect the police to closely look for tampering. ABC News Nightly report said a live round fired. That’s completely different from Brandon Lee. Labor disputes can get really ugly. I certainly hope tampering didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/263 "2021-10-22T22:55:11Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > But before I do, here’s a bit of fact that occurred the night before the shooting that has gone utterly unreported in the media: 4 members of the Camera Department quit this show that night. The TV media have picked this up, so the media is getting the news out there. Probably not entirely surprising the folks in the industry heard about it slightly ahead of the rest of us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=14)