# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 139
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2788 "2024-04-15T18:31:19Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > Or combine these ideas and require licensing and strict standards for productions with fully functional weapons. I am not an expert, but I suspect you need an armorer to verify that the prop gun is a prop gun, the starter gun is a starter gun, the bullets are blanks, etc., etc. I say they should be licensed and maybe have a requirement that they be over 25. Judging from this thread, the armorer needs presence and authority when the assistant producer is a flake or a jerk. Mutatis mutandis, maybe functional weapons should require special paperwork and approval from the Armory Brigade, or some private semi-independent semi-regulatory organization. Who make spot inspections and have authority to shut down filming. Nah, Hollywood wouldn’t like that. The idea is to put pressure on low budget productions, not high budget ones. Ok, then require special paperwork and supervision from licensed super-ultra-armorers - who have 10 years experience? So that regular armorers get their training with shoots that only use prop guns and starter guns?? My take is that any reform needs Hollywood on board. Furthermore, Hollywood gun fatalities are rare, relative to other fatalities suffered on set (and hell, off set). There are occupations where the standard is mitigated risk, not minimized risk. ISTM that this is one of them. Hollywood filming is a great US economic success story: due attention should be paid to the figurative Chamber of Commerce. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2789 "2024-04-15T20:31:51Z")
[CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/15/entertainment/rust-film-shooting-armorer-sentencing/index.html) is reporting that armorer has been sentenced: > Hannah Gutierrez Reed, the armorer of the film “Rust” who was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter last month for the 2021 on-set fatal shooting of [cinematographer Halyna Hutchins](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/entertainment/halyna-hutchins-remembered/index.html), was sentenced by a New Mexico judge to 18 months in prison Monday, the maximum possible punishment. > > “I did not hear you take accountability in your allocution. You said you were sorry, but not (that) you were sorry for what you did,” Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer said in announcing the sentence. > > “You alone turned a safe weapon into a lethal weapon,” the judge said. “But for you, Ms. Hutchins would be alive, a husband would have his partner, and a little boy would have his mother.” ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2790 "2024-04-15T22:12:27Z")
Apparently, her recorded conversations from jail did her no favors. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2791 "2024-04-15T22:22:43Z")
> “You alone turned a safe weapon into a lethal weapon,” the judge said. “But for you, Ms. Hutchins would be alive, a husband would have his partner, and a little boy would have his mother.” I assume that statement doesn’t carry any legal weight. If ‘you alone’ made the weapon lethal and if she would still be alive “but for you”, ISTM Baldwin has a lot less culpability here. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2792 "2024-04-15T22:38:33Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > “You alone turned a safe weapon into a lethal weapon,” the judge said. “But for you, Ms. Hutchins would be alive, a husband would have his partner, and a little boy would have his mother.” Baldwin did not in any sense turn a safe weapon into a lethal one. So she alone did indeed do that, with no help from Baldwin or anyone else. “But for,” however, is less strong. It’s technically correct (again, the best kind of correct) that, but for Ms. Hutchins’ willful and knowing decision to step out the door of her residence or whatever hotel she was staying in that morning, she would be alive. But of course that kind of independent act by the victim does not cut off the actor’s liability. Whether Gutierrez-Reed’s own gross incompetence is enough to cut off Baldwin’s criminal liability is, I suppose, TBD (but then again, maybe not—maybe it’s just a question of breach of duty). It’s the difference between what the law calls cause-in-fact (which includes mundane acts like stepping out your door in the morning and showing up to work i time to get shot through no fault of your own) and proximate cause (where the event is sufficiently related to the injury as so expose the actor to liability). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2793 "2024-04-16T04:46:06Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Apparently, her recorded conversations from jail did her no favors. Her attorney should have sternly warned Hannah that anything she says (on the jail phone) can be used in court. I understand her blaming the medics. I remember reports that it took over an hour for the med flight to get there. That’s an eternity for a gunshot victim. That doesn’t change Hannah’s negligence that caused the accidental shooting. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2794 "2024-04-16T04:58:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I understand her blaming the medics. Fair enough, but not this > Hannah Gutierrez-Reed blasted the jurors who convicted her of manslaughter charges in recorded jail phone conversations as “idiots” and “a–holes” and complained that they took only two hours to deliberate [‘Rust’ armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed called jurors ‘idiots’ in jail phone calls, prosecutors say (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rust-hannah-gutierrez-reed-called-jurors-idiots-rcna147746) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2795 "2024-04-16T08:15:27Z")
She’s as good of a defendant / prisoner as she is an armorer. What else is this woman terrible at? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2796 "2024-04-16T13:59:20Z")
18 months for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. Gift link: > **[‘Rust’ armorer sentenced to 18 months in prison for fatal shooting](https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/2024/04/15/rust-armorer-sentence-hannah-gutierrez-reed/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzEzMTUzNjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzE0NTM1OTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MTMxNTM2MDAsImp0aSI6ImM4ZWVjNThmLTNjZmQtNDMzMS1hZmU0LTczZTA2MGU4MDQwNyIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9zdHlsZS8yMDI0LzA0LzE1L3J1c3QtYXJtb3Jlci1zZW50ZW5jZS1oYW5uYWgtZ3V0aWVycmV6LXJlZWQvIn0.MiwagEJ2Yso29pZBpet1h47cWcssXNKMKFmTJlTvOUw&itid=gfta)** > > Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the chief armorer on the set of “Rust,” was sentenced Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2797 "2024-04-16T17:28:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Her attorney should have sternly warned Hannah that anything she says (on the jail phone) can be used in court. Can it though? She wouldn’t have been under oath at that time. Is it normal for prosecutors, or anyone for that matter, to have access to an incarcerated defendant’s phone calls? Complaining about a guilty verdict and using insulting names for the jurors doesn’t seem unreasonable for someone that’s facing 18 months in jail and venting\*. Especially when she’s talking on the phone with someone, as opposed to blasting the judge/jury/lawyers etc on social media to millions of followers. \*Even if you believe she deserves every minute of those 18 months, I think most people would still understand why she’d be angry about it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2798 "2024-04-16T18:09:15Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Can it though? She wouldn’t have been under oath at that time. Being under oath is not a requirement for statements of a party to be used at trial. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2799 "2024-04-16T20:32:11Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Can it though? She wouldn’t have been under oath at that time. I don’t know what right to privacy she’s entitled in that scenario, but AIUI, those statements, as well as some others, were presented to the judge, _after_ the verdict, as evidence of a lack of remorse or acceptance of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2800 "2024-04-16T21:14:27Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > > Can it though? She wouldn’t have been under oath at that time. > > I don’t know what right to privacy she’s entitled in that scenario, but AIUI, those statements, as well as some others, were presented to the judge, _after_ the verdict, as evidence of a lack of remorse or acceptance of responsibility . Such jailhouse statements may have an effect on evaluations of a potentially shortened sentence (e.g. good-behavior time, or parole). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2801 "2024-06-20T01:49:34Z")
> **[‘Rust’ prosecutors intend to paint Alec Baldwin as repeatedly...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/19/entertainment/rust-prosecutors-alec-baldwin-reckless-handling-firearm/index.html)** > > Special prosecutors in the upcoming “Rust” shooting trial intend to portray actor and film producer Alec Baldwin as repeatedly flouting safety protocols on the movie set in the days before the fatal shooting of the film’s cinematographer Halyna... > **['Rust' Special Prosecutors: New Evidence Against Alec Baldwin](https://www.thewrap.com/rust-shooting-alec-baldwin-trial-new-mexico-prosecutors-evidence/)** > > The State of New Mexico submits nine new incidents that ultimately led to the 2021 shooting death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins > **[Alec Baldwin fired blank at crew member before fatal ‘Rust’ shooting:...](https://nypost.com/2024/06/19/us-news/alec-baldwin-fired-blank-at-crew-member-before-fatal-rust-shooting-prosecutors/)** > > Alec Baldwin once fired a blank at a crew member on the set of “Rust,” prosecutors alleged, as they accused the actor of being reckless with guns while filming. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2802 "2024-06-20T15:00:49Z")
It’s interesting they don’t mention a film clip where Baldwin tells a crew person they are too close. IIRC he even explains the wadding could strike them. I can’t find it now. But I remember Baldwin being pretty stern when he warned the guy. They’ll have to prove Baldwin was aiming directly at anyone when he fired inappropriately. I think his defense will say he was pointing off to the side. That’s how actors are trained. The camera angle makes it look like they’re pointing directly at another actor. It was very unprofessional to fire a gun unexpectedly on set. Even if the person was a safe distance away. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2803 "2024-06-20T15:41:55Z")
I’m sure the prosecutor isn’t trying to taint the jury pool with such statements, right? /s ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2804 "2024-06-25T14:24:06Z")
> **[Alec Baldwin attorneys argue damage to gun during testing was unacceptable...](https://apnews.com/article/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-manslaughter-trial-92371d7585ad8d1309341deed9236581)** > > Defense attorneys for Alec Baldwin say the involuntary manslaughter charge against him in the 2021 death of a cinematographer on a movie set should be thrown out because the gun was damaged during FBI testing. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2805 "2024-06-27T05:36:43Z")
> **[How Did the Case Against Alec Baldwin Go so Far?](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/26/magazine/alec-baldwin-new-mexico-trial.html?unlocked_article_code=1.200.K6ji.r14i15tnPU1u&smid=url-share)** > > After an accidental on-set shooting death — and two years of bitter legal combat — the movie star is about to have his day in court. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2806 "2024-06-28T00:10:42Z")
As of right now, I’m not seeing this anywhere other than TMZ. > **['Rust' Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed Claims Prosecutors Hid Exculpatory Evidence](https://www.tmz.com/2024/06/27/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-claims-prosecutors-hid-exculpatory-evidence/#continued)** > > Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the armorer for "Rust," claims prosecutors in New Mexico buried information that would have helped her prove the gun in the fatal shooting might have fired without Alec Baldwin pulling the trigger. > Hannah’s attorney, **Jason Bowles** , claims prosecutors buried a report showing the gun had “unexplained” alterations to the trigger that were unlikely the result of the FBI’s trigger testing, and did not appear to be original manufacturing marks. I assume they meant “likely” not “unlikely”. > the report her legal team is talking about was brought up as part of Alec’s pretrial proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/2807 "2024-06-28T01:57:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > They’ll have to prove Baldwin was aiming directly at anyone when he fired inappropriately. I think his defense will say he was pointing off to the side. First, no, I don’t think the prosecution will have to prove he was “aiming directly at anyone.” Second, I’m pretty sure the prosecution would respond “Then how do you suppose the bullet ended up in the victims?” He _clearly_ pointed the gun at someone. Whether he was consciously _aiming_ for them is another matter, but I think also largely irrelevant when intent is it required to satisfy the elements of the offense charged. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > Hannah’s attorney, **Jason Bowles** , claims prosecutors buried a report showing the gun had “unexplained” alterations to the trigger that were unlikely the result of the FBI’s trigger testing, and did not appear to be original manufacturing marks. > > I assume they meant “likely” not “unlikely”. Even if true, I’m not sure how that evidence would even be relevant to her case, let alone exculpatory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=138) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=140)