# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/304 "2021-10-23T14:38:02Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > So, she was fully responsible, just not present (apparently), and not paying attention to her job. Think back to jobs some people have when they were around 24. A job where they blew off days & didn’t show up? A job they took about as seriously as jobs were taken seriously in ‘Clerks’? A job that was only landed due to Nepotism…? > [@](#): > > **Gutierrez-Reed is the daughter of legendary Hollywood armorer Thell Reed** 'Nuff said, close sesame… ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/305 "2021-10-23T14:44:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > For the record, those hours are not unusual for the business. It’s not just the hours – some of the crew never did get local accommodations. Citing some of the tweets, the _Daily Mail_ article says “Union members vented on social media before the tragedy about the poor conditions on the set of the film. They talked about having to sleep in their cars at the set rather than make the drive back to Albuquerque because they were too exhausted.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/306 "2021-10-23T14:48:18Z")
Again: been there. Multiple times. Slept in a kitchen at the Hilton Garden in Monterey once rather than drive back to Santa Cruz and then back to Monterey 6 hours later, for example. It isn’t right and it isn’t cool, but it happens. People not in the business don’t really realize just how hard it is. That these conditions exist and that the conditions that led to this tragedy exist are not at all surprising to me. ---
**Author:** ![cupofjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@cupofjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cupofjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/307 "2021-10-23T15:00:40Z")
Apparently a lot of safety issues on set. But this whole situation is just sad. Love or hate him, no one should have to go through this and carry this trauma. As for the people shot, what a damn tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/308 "2021-10-23T15:02:18Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > 5% with Baldwin, who perhaps should have known to always point anything resembling a gun a little off to the side of any human. I would put that number higher. The film crew should have received that training on this and any previous set. It’s probably why they walked out. It wasn’t being adhered to. As the Director and also a seasoned actor Baldwin should have insisted on the armorer handling the prop and demonstrating it’s safe condition. If this movie represented a post civil war era then a single action Colt 45 would have been the simplest gun to use. It was popular and easily obtained. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/309 "2021-10-23T15:07:44Z")
The misspelling of “led” is tragically appropriate. How do semi-literates like this get employed as journalists? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/310 "2021-10-23T15:08:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > As the Director Ya know, there’s a link in the OP, and if you click on it you’ll see, _and injured director Joel Souza_ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/311 "2021-10-23T15:11:40Z")
Note that if I follow @GreenWyvern’s link to the Daily Mail story, it’s apparently since been edited to correct that. Though this bit from the Daily Mail article was interesting, > ‘I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,’ Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer. > > She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun ‘the scariest’ thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/312 "2021-10-23T15:13:16Z")
Good to hear _somebody_’s paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/313 "2021-10-23T15:15:13Z")
Side note: my local paper, now gobbled up by a consortium and actually housed in another state, was excoriated for a headline that said “were their at” when “where they are” was wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/314 "2021-10-23T15:21:00Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It would be interesting to know if “producer” was just sort of an honorary title they gave Baldwin, or if this was truly his project. Because working conditions on that set were apparently pretty bad and pretty chaotic, as evidenced by the earlier accidental gun firings and the crew walkout. The crew also had to work minimum 15-hour days (14 hours plus an hour for lunch) before they got comped for a hotel room, and even then it was a cheap dive that also served as a homeless shelter. If Baldwin was responsible for this sort of work environment, characterized by penny-pinching and carelessness, then he may indirectly bear some share of the blame. I am desperately trying to find the link, but my searches are overwhelmingly dominated by newer hits. I read an article claiming that Baldwin had also complained about conditions on the set and the treatment of the workers, but the production company leadership dismissed his concerns just the same as the rest of the crew. So if that’s true, he’s clearly not the “boss” here. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/315 "2021-10-23T15:26:13Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > I read an article claiming that Baldwin had also complained about conditions on the set and the treatment of the workers The Daily Mail article linked above says Baldwin told the crew to strike. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/316 "2021-10-23T15:27:48Z")
How the fuck does someone that “found loading blanks into a gun ‘the scariest’ thing because she did not know how to do it” become an armorer let alone a head one??? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/317 "2021-10-23T15:28:24Z")
Daddy’s resume. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/318 "2021-10-23T15:29:37Z")
And this was only the second film on which she worked as armorer. Given that it’s her dad’s profession, what about practicing with him at home or shadowing him on set before taking on the role? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/319 "2021-10-23T15:32:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I routinely worked from 8am until midnight for multiple days (and sometimes multiple weeks). I recall JMS being very proud of the fact that in shooting all five seasons of _Babylon 5_, they’d never had to work weekends and worked past midnight on a Friday only twice. Of course with a 5 or 6am call for actors in prosthetics, that can still be a long day. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/320 "2021-10-23T15:32:13Z")
Alec Baldwin made a video _just 4 days ago_, strongly supporting IATSE, and saying they should go on strike if they need to, they have been treated terribly, etc. etc. Yet at the very same time, union members on _his own movie_ were being treated so badly that they walked out, and were replaced by non-union members – and apparently Baldwin he did nothing to stand up for them. **[Alec Baldwin Instagram video](https://www.instagram.com/p/CVMS7PJjIQF/)** (watch from about 8:10) Is he a total hypocrite? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/321 "2021-10-23T15:33:47Z")
So I see 12 producers on the film, they do tend to give these titles out like candy. Is it his project or was he given the Title and a share of the profits for a lower salary like happens so often? > **Produced by** | [Alec Baldwin](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000285/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr2) | … | producer | | --- | --- | --- | | [Kc Brandenstein](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4219427/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr3) | … | co-producer | | [Allen Cheney](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7922541/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr4) | … | executive producer | | [Matt DelPiano](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2199953/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr5) | … | producer | | [Tyler Gould](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5412072/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr6) | … | executive producer | | [Matthew Helderman](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4258667/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr7) | … | executive producer | | [Nathan Klingher](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9684964/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr8) | … | producer | | [Anjul Nigam](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0631413/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr9) | … | producer | | [Emily Hunter Salveson](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6875357/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr10) | … | executive producer | | [Ryan Donnell Smith](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3855352/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr11) | … | producer | | [Luke Taylor](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4259760/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr12) | … | executive producer | | [Ryan Winterstern](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6186977/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr13) | … | producer | ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/322 "2021-10-23T15:37:35Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > So I see 12 producers on the film, the do tend to give these titles out like candy. As was noted earlier (by Cartooniverse, I think), “producer” and “executive producer” are _usually_ two different sorts of titles on a film, and the latter is typically given to someone who helps secure financing for the film. My understanding (possibly flawed) is that most of the time, an executive producer has little (or no) involvement with the actual production itself. (FWIW, [Steve Mnuchin](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6518391/), who was the Secretary of the Treasury in the Trump Administration, has been “executive producer” on dozens of films; he’s a financier, not a movie guy.) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/323 "2021-10-23T15:42:44Z")
Further it is my understanding that en Executive Producer is involved with the non-artistic parts of a production like making sure everybody gets paid and the caterer has the proper health certification so the whole crew doesn’t come down with food poisoning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=17)