# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/344 "2021-10-23T18:08:35Z")
Movies with a recognizable name can be profitable with a minimum of effort. There’s a whole host of formulatic movies made with past-their-prime actors like Bruce Willis, John Travolta, Sylvester Stalone, etc. that end up on streaming services. A big chunk of the budget goes to the named actor and the rest of the movie is made on the cheap. Audiences who aren’t picky see a recognizable name in the sea of films and rent it over the movies with no-name actors. The genre is called [Geezer Teaser](https://www.vulture.com/article/randall-emmett-movies.html). Baldwin’s movie seems like it could be something like this. A rehash of a common plot for an easy paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/345 "2021-10-23T18:09:35Z")
Jensen Ackles is somewhat of a draw and he was going to be in it as well. No idea if this movie will even continue, but Ackles is a draw to many. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/346 "2021-10-23T18:10:46Z")
To be sure, I wasn’t implicating the armorer specifically. Just positing that in this fishy, speculative situation… bum bum BUMMM, what if the armorer was bypassed. Speculation, totally. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/347 "2021-10-23T18:13:21Z")
Here’s the clip of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed saying she wasn’t sure she was ready, and that loading blanks was scary. It was apparently made on Sep 9. [https://videos.metro.co.uk/video/met/2021/10/23/7842378251355271991/480x270\_MP4\_7842378251355271991.mp4](https://videos.metro.co.uk/video/met/2021/10/23/7842378251355271991/480x270_MP4_7842378251355271991.mp4) ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/348 "2021-10-23T18:14:46Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > I read an article claiming that Baldwin had also complained about conditions on the set and the treatment of the workers, but the production company leadership dismissed his concerns just the same as the rest of the crew. So if that’s true, he’s clearly not the “boss” here. Even if he wasn’t the “boss,” Baldwin had the clout to put his foot down and insist that he would not continue unless the safety issues were addressed. Regardless of whether his producer credit was honorary, his star power alone and its importance to the picture gave him authority that no one else on the cast or crew had. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/349 "2021-10-23T18:16:39Z")
> She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun ‘the scariest’ thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear. The way I interpret this, she knew how to load a gun with blanks from a mechanical perspective, but had some psychological discomfort that the gun might eventually be pointed at someone and the trigger would be squeezed. Which… I can understand. But it’s also something that an armorer must get over. I am not sure if she eventually got over this fear. At any rate, and as others have mentioned, the biggest issue is: _Why was there real ammo on the set?_ Even if everything else goes wrong, it’s doubtful no one would have died if real ammo had not been on the set. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/350 "2021-10-23T18:21:01Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > live rounds Define “live rounds”? > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > real ammo Define “real ammo”? ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/351 "2021-10-23T18:22:54Z")
One thing that might be good is for sets to have a ribbon or something in the barrel to indicate their state when they are not being used. I’m thinking of something similar to the [“REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remove_before_flight) ribbons on critical components seen on military planes that must be removed during the pre-flight check. The ribbon makes it immediately obvious if a step was skipped before a plane takes off. Something similar could be done with the prop guns. The armorer could use different colored ribbons indicating different kinds of guns (rubber, empty, blanks, etc.) It would help prevent the situation where someone grabs a gun from a cart thinking it’s one kind of gun when it’s really another. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/352 "2021-10-23T18:23:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What’s really crazy is that there were THREE previous accidental discharges from supposedly ‘cold’ guns. How does that happen? Do we know if these “accidental discharges” were from a gun containing real ammo? Or did they contain blanks? And I put “accidental discharges” in quotes, since an accidental discharge is extremely rare. A more proper term is “negligent discharge.” ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/353 "2021-10-23T18:24:36Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Define “real ammo”? A unfired cartridge containing primer, propellant, and solid _bullet_. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/354 "2021-10-23T18:26:27Z")
I’ve only been keeping up with this by reading the thread. So, anyone got a link that says there was actual ammunition, not blanks, on the set? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/355 "2021-10-23T18:26:39Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > > > live rounds > > Define “live rounds”? > > > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > > real ammo > > Define “real ammo”? The reports say that the shot passed right through Halyna Hutchins’ body and injured Joel Souza who was standing behind her. That’s not a blank, or even an object lodged in the gun barrel. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/356 "2021-10-23T18:30:50Z")
One usually doesn’t hear of on set injuries or even fatalities. Is it a laissez faire style of studio leadership that fails to recognize dangers? is it expected of actors to sustain injuries as part of the hazards of the job? Seems incredibly haphazard for multiple firearm mishaps to occur on the set of Rust without someone figuring out wtf is happening and correcting it. > **[List of film and television accidents](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_and_television_accidents)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > In the history of film and television, accidents have occurred during shooting, such as cast or crew fatalities or serious accidents that plagued production. From 1980 to 1990, there were 37 deaths relating to accidents during stunts; 24 of these deaths involved the use of helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/357 "2021-10-23T18:34:43Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Do we know if these “accidental discharges” were from a gun containing real ammo? Or did they contain blanks? From the link I posted yesterday: > [@](#): > > Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges. > > Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. > … > A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times. So the article interchangeably uses these terms, and is quite badly written by someone who clearly does not understand the issues. How badly written? This is the description of the incident: > [@](#): > > Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The first time I read that I thought they meant that the gun broke and the ammo in it flew across the room. But it’s how the writer described the actual shooting. And how do you accidentally fire TWO rounds from a supposedly cold gun? Maybe it’s just a really shitty article that gets major details wrong, I’m used to that with any sort of gun reporting. Assuming the details are correct and there were previous written warnings about dangerous firearm practices and near-accidents, someone may be nailed on this for reckless endangerment, or some other civil/criminal charge. This sounds like a lot more than a freak accident. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/358 "2021-10-23T18:42:12Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Here’s the clip of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed saying she wasn’t sure she was ready, and that loading blanks was scary. It was apparently made on Sep 9. > > [https://videos.metro.co.uk/video/met/2021/10/23/7842378251355271991/480x270\_MP4\_7842378251355271991.mp4](https://videos.metro.co.uk/video/met/2021/10/23/7842378251355271991/480x270_MP4_7842378251355271991.mp4) I think it’s clear by that she didn’t mean loading blank cartridges into a gun. She meant loading blanks with powder. Actually making blank cartridges. Ammunition doesn’t have to come out of a box from a manufacturer. Many people load their own. I would think that’s an important skill for an armorer to have. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/359 "2021-10-23T18:43:13Z")
I agree, and I’m sure the facts will eventually come out. But _ **if** _ the accidental negligent discharges that happened prior were from guns that shot real ammoa, then production should have been immediately halted and a thorough investigation should have taken place. aA real, live, unspent ammunition cartridge containing primer, propellant, and solid bullet. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/360 "2021-10-23T18:45:38Z")
Why would any real ammo be anywhere near the set? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/361 "2021-10-23T18:46:24Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > One thing that might be good is for sets to have a ribbon or something in the barrel to indicate their state when they are not being used. I’m thinking of something similar to the [“REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remove_before_flight) ribbons on critical components seen on military planes that must be removed during the pre-flight check. The ribbon makes it immediately obvious if a step was skipped before a plane takes off. Something similar could be done with the prop guns. The armorer could use different colored ribbons indicating different kinds of guns (rubber, empty, blanks, etc.) It would help prevent the situation where someone grabs a gun from a cart thinking it’s one kind of gun when it’s really another. There should be no need for that. No guns should be out for an assistant director to pick up. They should be secured away where only the armorer can get to. They should be either loaded or checked safe by the armorer and handed directly to the actor. There should be no need for markings because the armorer should have positive control of the weapons at all times that the actor doesn’t have it and should also be watching and ready to take back the weapon when it’s not needed. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/362 "2021-10-23T18:47:15Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think it’s clear by that she didn’t mean loading blank cartridges into a gun. She meant loading blanks with powder. Actually making blank cartridges. Ditto. And it _should_ be “scary” - meaning understanding the seriousness of the procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/363 "2021-10-23T18:48:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think it’s clear by that she didn’t mean loading blank cartridges into a gun. She meant loading blanks with powder. Actually making blank cartridges. Ammunition doesn’t have to come out of a box from a manufacturer. Many people load their own. I would think that’s an important skill for an armorer to have. Perhaps. But I was under the assumption that an armorer would simply [purchase them](https://www.westernstageprops.com/45-long-colt-balloon-blank-ammunition-p/sa45.htm). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=19)