# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/364 "2021-10-23T18:48:58Z")
I’m wondering if they decided to go ahead with production without waiting for the armorer to arrive. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/365 "2021-10-23T18:49:13Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > He worked on the _sequel_ to the movie where Brandon Lee died. Oh. The “Porno” Crow. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/366 "2021-10-23T18:51:45Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I agree, and I’m sure the facts will eventually come out. But _ **if** _ the accidental negligent discharges that happened prior were from guns that shot real ammoa, then production should have been immediately halted and a thorough investigation should have taken place. > > aA real, live, unspent ammunition cartridge containing primer, propellant, and solid bullet. I would think the same if a blank was in a ‘cold’ gun. That means no one would have had hearing protection at a minimum, and there was a chance of an accidental discharge doing all sorts of damage to people and property. For example, an untrained person attempting a quick-draw could easily discharge the gun into their leg, which could do serious harm even with a blank. An unprotected camera lens could be damaged by unburned powder as well. But more to the point, if a ‘cold’ gun actually contains a live cartridge of any sort, it’s a sign that safety procedures have broken down and are not to be trusted until the source of the error is located. And since these are real guns, at that point they should all be treated as loaded and dangerous until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/367 "2021-10-23T18:55:03Z")
Agree… if the accidental negligent discharges were “only” from blanks (which can still be deadly), everything should have stopped, followed by an investigation. Something _really_ went wrong here. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/368 "2021-10-23T18:56:19Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > I think it’s clear by that she didn’t mean loading blank cartridges into a gun. She meant loading blanks with powder. Actually making blank cartridges. Ammunition doesn’t have to come out of a box from a manufacturer. Many people load their own. I would think that’s an important skill for an armorer to have. > > Perhaps. But I was under the assumption that an armorer would simply [purchase them](https://www.westernstageprops.com/45-long-colt-balloon-blank-ammunition-p/sa45.htm). Different circumstances call for different types of loads. It may not be a skill that is needed every time but still a skill that should be in an armorers tool bag. And besides it’s easy to do and cheaper than buying ammo. Regardless of how often she needs to do it, it was clear she didn’t say “load blanks into a gun” as was stated in this thread. The wording she used in that podcast makes me 100% certain she meant loading her own ammo. Also the fact that loading blanks into a gun is functionally no different than loading any ammo. Loading a blank with powder is functionally different than making a live round. Edited to add, the type of blanks that you linked to are definitely not the kind you want on a movie set. Those are designed specifically to have material shoot out the barrel with enough force to pop balloons. It’s used for quick draw competitions and stage shows. Certainly not near where someone is standing. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/369 "2021-10-23T19:10:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think it’s clear by that she didn’t mean loading blank cartridges into a gun. She meant loading blanks with powder. Actually making blank cartridges. Ammunition doesn’t have to come out of a box from a manufacturer. Many people load their own. I would think that’s an important skill for an armorer to have. Makes sense. I think I have heard of directors having the amount of powder adjusted for their preferred level of barrel fire. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Why would any real ammo be anywhere near the set? This is part of why I’m going with drunkenness as a component of the whole affair. The best way for normal ammo to end up in the guns is late night shooting, out in the desert, while throwing back some beers. Maybe the armorer and some others are taking turns, put the guns back on the tray before going to bed, she’s still asleep in the morning when they start filming, and the assistant director grabs the guns figuring that they were clean yesterday and no one should have messed with them since then. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/370 "2021-10-23T19:24:56Z")
re: ribbons and taking turns… But that’s _why_ a film production has an armorer in the first place: they are the final responsibility for the firearms and should be the last person who handles it before an actor and the first person who handles it after an actor. When I’ve been on set with firearms, you couldn’t even bribe me to handle one, not even if I found it lying on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/371 "2021-10-23T19:28:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > When I’ve been on set with firearms, you couldn’t even bribe me to handle one, not even if I found it lying on the floor. Gun safety PSA: **STOP!** **DON’T TOUCH.** **LEAVE THE AREA.** **CALL AN ADULT.** ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/372 "2021-10-23T19:31:04Z")
Apparently from the 9-1-1 call: > [@](#): > > “We had two people accidentally shot on a move set by a prop gun, we need help immediately,” script supervisor Mamie Mitchell told an emergency dispatcher. “We were rehearsing and it went off, and I ran out, we all ran out.” > > The dispatcher asked if the gun was loaded with a real bullet. > > “I cannot tell you. We have two injuries,” Mitchell replied. “And this (expletive) AD (assistant director) that yelled at me at lunch, asking about revisions…He’s supposed to check the guns. He’s responsible for what happens on the set.” > **[Film crew voiced complaints before fatal on-set shooting](https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-arts-and-entertainment-shootings-movies-santa-fe-9132dc507b5bd9273156f051998e5d03)** > > Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fired a fatal gunshot from a prop gun that he had been told was safe, seven camera crew members for the movie he was filming walked off the job to protest conditions and production issues that included safety concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/373 "2021-10-23T19:40:52Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Regardless of whether his producer credit was honorary, his star power alone and its importance to the picture gave him authority that no one else on the cast or crew had. That’s how an actor gets the career-killing label of “difficult”. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/374 "2021-10-23T19:49:47Z")
Baldwin is 63 years old and his reputation (as well as his bankability) is already well established. He had nothing to fear by taking a stand over the safety issues. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/375 "2021-10-23T19:50:03Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > That’s how an actor gets the career-killing label of “difficult”. Easy to fix. buy your way into a low budget movie where your name carries star power. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/376 "2021-10-23T19:53:41Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > This is part of why I’m going with drunkenness as a component of the whole affair. > > The best way for normal ammo to end up in the guns is late night shooting, out in the desert, while throwing back some beers. Maybe the armorer and some others are taking turns, put the guns back on the tray before going to bed, she’s still asleep in the morning when they start filming, and the assistant director grabs the guns figuring that they were clean yesterday and no one should have messed with them since then. That makes a lot of sense. But the reports say that after the incident the armorer retrieved the gun and cartridge case and handed them over to the police. So she was certainly present on the set. There are a lot of unanswered questions. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/377 "2021-10-23T20:02:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > But that’s _why_ a film production has an armorer in the first place: they are the final responsibility for the firearms and should be the last person who handles it before an actor and the first person who handles it after an actor. When I’ve been on set with firearms, you couldn’t even bribe me to handle one, not even if I found it lying on the floor. But then why would anyone allow the AD to hand the gun to Baldwin? Shouldn’t everyone on set realized that the AD handling the gun was a violation of protocol? And that’s including Baldwin and the Director. It seems like Baldwin should have refused the gun in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/378 "2021-10-23T20:02:27Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > But the reports say that after the incident the armorer retrieved the gun and cartridge and handed them over to the police. So she was certainly present on the set. If she was in a hotel then it depends on the travel time from the hotel to the set, versus the travel time from the police department. If she was in the director’s trailer (as an example), on set, it just takes shouting, adrenaline, and a minute to throw some clothes on to be there and checking the weapons. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/379 "2021-10-23T20:07:01Z")
It’s interesting to speculate, but I guess we’ll just have to wait for the facts. They will probably turn out to be different from anything we suggest here. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/380 "2021-10-23T20:09:47Z")
Yep, that is definitely baseless speculation with no particular evidence. I have no knowledge beyond what’s been publicized. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/381 "2021-10-23T20:17:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Why would any real ammo be anywhere near the set? > > This is part of why I’m going with drunkenness as a component of the whole affair. > > The best way for normal ammo to end up in the guns is late night shooting, out in the desert, while throwing back some beers. Maybe the armorer and some others are taking turns, put the guns back on the tray before going to bed, she’s still asleep in the morning when they start filming, and the assistant director grabs the guns figuring that they were clean yesterday and no one should have messed with them since then. That’s _possible_, though grossly negligent and irresponsible. Whatever shooting anyone wants to do after hours should be with completely other guns. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/382 "2021-10-23T20:20:12Z")
Neither do I. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/383 "2021-10-23T20:22:26Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That’s _possible_ , though grossly negligent and irresponsible. So far, every piece of **real** information we have about this accident suggests that one or more persons were grossly negligent and irresponsible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=20)