# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/41 "2021-10-22T05:44:59Z")
Weirdly enough I was on set and had a cold pistol loaded with practice ammunition pointed at me just tonight, and when I had a break I looked through the news on my telephone and read about this. I was a stand in on a Netflix series. There were no incidents on my set, the weapons master demonstrated to me that the ammunition was a practice round. The practice rounds will cycle an automatic but not fire a bullet. No one fired at me anyway, he just pointed and said bang! then we cut and the stuntman stepped in. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/42 "2021-10-22T05:48:44Z")
There’s no reason to have even fake firing rounds these days. CGI compositing in muzzle flashes and smoke is off-the-shelf easy to do, and costs barely minutes of time to achieve. It’s cheaper and safer to use Airsoft pistols that fire nothing, and they will still look just as good. Something about this whole incident just doesn’t add up. There must be Props Masters and Stunt Supervisors across the world right now who are very confused. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/43 "2021-10-22T05:54:30Z")
Let’s get some facts on the table before everybody runs ahead of the story and latches onto a misinterpreted version of reality. Industry coverage indicates that this happened during a _rehearsal._ Not during the filming of an actual scene. A _rehearsal._ There is a person on a film set called an armorer whose job it is to manage the firearms. He (it’s usually a he) is responsible for preparing the weapons, keeping them secured on set, formally checking them out to each actor, observing the actor’s handling for safe practices, loading the weapon prior to filming, and checking the weapon back in when filming is complete. The weapon is _never_ supposed to be loaded during the rehearsal. Baldwin has been working with prop weapons for 40 years. This has always been the rule. If the armorer handed him a weapon for the rehearsal, Baldwin will have had no expectation that it should be loaded or unsafe in any way. If it was loaded, its discharge is 100% the responsibility of the armorer. It’s fine if you feel animosity for Baldwin. It is _not_ fine if you allow that animosity to skew your interpretation of the facts in the incident. Given these facts — it was a professional film set, there was an armorer present, the incident happened during a rehearsal prior to actual filming — Baldwin bears zero responsibility. He would not have been expected to re-check the gun after the armorer handed it to him. It just doesn’t work like that. Also, you should set aside all the mental poisoning from celebrity-obsessed media, which invariably looks for the biggest name in the story and makes them the center of the coverage, because that’s what sells papers and draws clicks. Objectively, the real story here is that the negligence of the armorer caused the death of a promising young female cinematographer (a rarity in Hollywood!) who was highly regarded and coming up fast on a major career. That’s the headline. “Movie gun-handler’s negligence causes death of up-and-coming cinematographer.” Baldwin is almost incidental to the story. Now that I’ve said this, I fully expect to be ignored and argued with, by people who can’t get past the fact that Baldwin is the Big Famous Name in the story so of course he’s the most interesting part to talk about. Whatever. Caveat: Yes, there is a vanishingly small possibility that Baldwin, as the producer of the movie, hired an unqualified armorer or was making unprofessional demands or something else that causes liability to attach to him. It’s not impossible, and if counterfactual information emerges, then the situation will change. But if you know how movie sets work, especially on the subject of prop firearms, you know that this is very, very, _very_ unlikely, and that the overwhelming odds favor the negligent-armorer story. This is the Dope, people. Facts first. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/44 "2021-10-22T05:59:28Z")
You miss the point that Baldwin pointed the weapon at another person and pulled the trigger. This is on him especially because it was a rehearsal. Of course we should wait to see what the investigation discovers. The sad fact that someone was killed will make it far less likely that anything will be covered up. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/45 "2021-10-22T06:01:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You miss the point that Baldwin pointed the weapon at another person and pulled the trigger. This is on him especially because it was a rehearsal. It’s like you didn’t even read the post you’re responding to. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/46 "2021-10-22T06:02:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If the cartridge doesn’t have a bullet then the packing wad wouldn’t carry any weight (literally) as a projectile. It comes out at the same velocity as a bullet for approximately 3-6 feet. which is why blanks can still be dangerous and people have died from them. Prop guns (I own a few) are set up to only accept blank cartridges and many times are 8mm. Different techniques are used for different scenes due to safety concerns. Such as when someone gets shot point blank in the head. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/47 "2021-10-22T06:03:12Z")
His post is an attempt to shield Baldwin from any blame. Baldwin should have never pointed his weapon at another person. Baldwin never should have pulled the trigger. There is no excuse for that. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/48 "2021-10-22T06:09:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > His post is an attempt to shield Baldwin from any blame. His post is to warn everyone not to jump to conclusions. Which is exactly what you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/49 "2021-10-22T06:10:14Z")
Pointing a weapon at another person is the actor’s job. The weapons master’s job is to ensure that the weapon is safe to use in the manner directed. Whether that involves blank or practice rounds, or I’ve been on sets where no “real” guns are in use, just rubber ones, or prop weapons that can’t fire at all, It varies with the application. Having Baldwin point a weapon at a cinematographer and pull the trigger is not something I would normally expect to happen, but as the star and producer I could certainly see Baldwin and Halyna Hutchins working out some staging and firing a negligently loaded pistol. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/50 "2021-10-22T06:12:07Z")
No Im not. If it is true that Baldwin actually fired the deadly shot then two facts are indisputable: 1. Baldwin pointed the gun at another person 2. Baldwin pulled the trigger It doesnt mean that he is solely responsible but his actions resulted in another persons death. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/51 "2021-10-22T06:16:10Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > It doesnt mean that he is solely responsible but his actions resulted in another persons death. Someone triggered the switch that launched the shuttle Challenger and seven people died. Is that person culpable as well? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/52 "2021-10-22T06:17:30Z")
The completely biased and skewed thread title doesn’t help the discussion, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/53 "2021-10-22T06:18:03Z")
Ridiculous analogy. A Space Shuttle is not a weapon and is not aimed at anyone. Baldwin did not have to aim the weapon. Baldwin did not have to pull the trigger. Had he handled his weapon responsibly another human being would be alive. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/54 "2021-10-22T06:19:30Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Baldwin did not have to pull the trigger. …and you know this how? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/55 "2021-10-22T06:20:36Z")
Another person was in his line of fire. It was a rehearsal if the site above is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/56 "2021-10-22T06:20:48Z")
So you don’t know? What was happening around them? Did the director say “okay fire the gun”? Why wouldn’t he have fired the gun in that case? You don’t know. You don’t even know if someone was in his line of fire because we don’t know what happened yet. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/57 "2021-10-22T06:21:10Z")
you do you. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/58 "2021-10-22T06:23:34Z")
If the director was so irresponsible to line up a shot with another person in the line of fire and if the set safety person overlooked this all Baldwin had to do was ask the person to move out of his line of fire. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/59 "2021-10-22T06:24:14Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > It doesnt mean that he is solely responsible but his actions resulted in another persons death. I have been on three sets — two film, one television — and in three stage productions where firearms were handled. In two of those cases, I was the performer with the weapon in my hand, pulling the trigger. I look forward to your citation of your own professional acting resume. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/60 "2021-10-22T06:25:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The completely biased and skewed thread title doesn’t help the discussion, IMO. This AP story has much more accurate and responsible, although much less titillating title: > **[Sheriff: Baldwin fired shot on movie set that killed woman](https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-arts-and-entertainment-new-mexico-movies-santa-fe-915b39db68b559f03103171fdaecca79)** > > A prop firearm discharged by veteran actor Alec Baldwin, who is producing and starring in a Western movie, killed his director of photography and injured the director Thursday at the movie set outside Santa Fe, authorities said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=4)