# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/725 "2021-10-25T22:19:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > > > because the last time something like this happened was **28** years ago! That shows how incredibly rare and unusual this is. > > You could be right and It might be rare but you’re going to have to cite the statistics between number of guns handled in the entertainment business and other gun users. That includes, private owners, police, and military. > > Keep in mind there are people paid to oversee actors vs the other groups I mentioned. I have no idea what that has to do with what I said. This would be a newsworthy event whether Alec Baldwin was involved or not. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/726 "2021-10-25T22:22:55Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > At the end of the day, you’ve presented no firm evidence Baldwin wasn’t following safety rules actors are commonly expected to follow. Sans some sort of meaningful point I don’t really know that what you’re saying has any real meaning. Did you read the links I posted? Here’s another: [https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/how-actors-should-handle-prop-guns-72859/](https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/how-actors-should-handle-prop-guns-72859/) > [@](#): > > I was really surprised at the steps the prop master follows, even when bringing a rubber replica gun on set. “The guns should be carried to set and shown to the first assistant director. Then, the gun is offered to be shown as fully empty and safe to any other members of the crew. The prop master or armorer calls, ‘Rubber gun on set!’ Rubber, foam, and resin guns are all used to achieve the look of the firearm without the real thing,” she says. Then they announce, “Cold weapon on set!” to confirm that the firearm is empty. > > Additional steps are taken with the actors. “The gun is then presented to all actors in the scene—especially the one who holds the weapon and anyone it may be pointed at.” This is the protocol for a nonfiring weapon on set. “All guns used are modified to fire blanks only. In the case of [the] firing of a blank in the scene, the armorer will observe the rehearsals and determine the concerns and needs of the director to help accomplish the scene safely,” Kenyon says. That is the protocol for _a rubber gun_. > **[Prop gun use on movie sets: What, exactly, is the protocol? | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/8289571/alec-baldwin-prop-gun-movie-set-deaths/)** > > A Winnipeg film producer says strict protocols around gun use mean the incident that killed a cinematographer in the U.S. was — thankfully — a rare occurrence in the industry. > [@](#): > > “When the actual weapon itself is brought out, people are made aware of it — there are safety conversations to talk about the fact that it’s being used that day, the actors are meant to be trained and prepped in the use of the firearm, and an inspection is done on-set of the firearm to make sure it’s either empty or being loaded with a safe, blank round.” > **[I'm a prop master who handles weapons on movie and TV sets. I'm the last...](https://www.businessinsider.com/prop-master-handles-weapons-prop-guns-rust-alec-baldwin-2021-10)** > > Lucien Charles works as a prop master for TV shows and movies. He says he's never experienced anything like what happened on the "Rust" movie set. > [@](#): > > The vendor-weapon specialist provides a gun-safety course, which the actors have to take. They teach you gun safety, how to handle a gun, and what could happen if you’re not paying attention to the safety of everyone on a set. > > Prop masters are the last person to hand an actor a gun, and the person who gives the actor a gun is responsible for it. **You have to go through the proper procedures to show the actor whether the gun is loaded** and, if it’s not, whether it’s plugged, when a piece of plastic or wood clogs the magazine. There are a whole bunch of scenarios, and a lot of stuff could go wrong. I already posted Canadian, Australian, and AFTRA rules explicitly calling out the actor as needing tombe shown that the gun is safe, plus multipke links from Ameicannprop master and armorers saying the same thing. It may not be illegal not to do so, but for civil liability I think it just needs to be shown that training rules were violated and standard safety protocols breached. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/727 "2021-10-25T22:23:23Z")
OK, perhaps I should use “pointed at” instead of “aimed at.” I can’t imagine Baldwin would deliberately aim a gun at someone (even one he was assured was empty) and pull the trigger. But it’s quite possible he did. If we freeze that moment in time: Baldwin is holding the gun, it is pointed at the woman, and he pulled the trigger. That’s pretty close to being aimed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/728 "2021-10-25T22:25:15Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So even with “people specifically overseeing actors” you think no one should ever point a gun at a person on a movie set? You’re trying to discount other standard safety rules in an attempt to justify what happened as an accident. That’s not how it works. I would say you never point a weapon at someone. there’s no reason to. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/729 "2021-10-25T22:27:04Z")
But on a movie set where you’re explicitly portraying someone shooting someone else, _of course_ you’re pointing a gun at someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/730 "2021-10-25T22:27:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would say you never point a weapon at someone. there’s no reason to. About a billion cop/action/western/gangster/horror films would disagree with you. Which is the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/731 "2021-10-25T22:27:23Z")
Hell, sometimes you’re holding the barrel of the gun directly against the person’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/732 "2021-10-25T22:31:14Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > About a billion cop/action/western/horror films would disagree with you. Which is the whole point. If you think there are more guns discharged in film than real life then cite it. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/733 "2021-10-25T22:31:32Z")
…uh what? Again, I have **no idea** what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/734 "2021-10-25T22:34:39Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > …what? Again, I have **no idea** what you are talking about. How many times are guns used in film, vs how many are used outside of film in the same time frame. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/735 "2021-10-25T22:35:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > > > …what? Again, I have **no idea** what you are talking about. > > How many times are guns used in film, per how many are used outside of film in the same time frame What relevance does that have to pointing a gun at someone in a movie? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/736 "2021-10-25T22:38:03Z")
If he was practicing a cross-draw the pistol’s muzzle would have been sweeping from left to right, assuming right-handed. Assuming (again) an accidental discharge, had it been 100 milliseconds later or earlier it would have been a bad scare, not a death. I can’t claim to be a genuine expert but I have read _No Second Place Winner_ by [Bill Jordan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Jordan_(American_lawman)). In it he specifically mentioned a lack of enthusiasm about the cross draw because that sweep puts bystanders at a higher risk and it takes longer to complete the draw and take an aimed shot. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/737 "2021-10-25T22:39:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How many times are guns used in film, vs how many are used outside of film in the same time frame. Depends on the film, doesn’t it? Some are incredibly violent compared to the real world; some have no guns at all. I mean, are we talking Commando or The Notebook? And count me as another who doesn’t get what this has to do with the fact that - in movies as opposed to real life - you sometimes are indeed supposed to point a gun at somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/738 "2021-10-25T22:43:12Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > And count me as another who doesn’t get what this has to do with the fact that - in movies as opposed to real life It was in response to the idea that the numbers are low in film. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/739 "2021-10-25T22:47:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > And count me as another who doesn’t get what this has to do with the fact that - in movies as opposed to real life > > It was in response to the idea that the numbers are low in film The numbers of _what_ are low in film? I don’t know what you think you are replying to. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/740 "2021-10-25T22:47:54Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > And count me as another who doesn’t get what this has to do with the fact that - in movies as opposed to real life - you sometimes are indeed supposed to point a gun at somebody. point something that looks like a gun but is incapable of taking any form of cartridge. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/741 "2021-10-25T22:48:15Z")
[Deleted] ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/742 "2021-10-25T22:51:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > point something that looks like a gun but is incapable of taking any form of cartridge. Only John Dillinger biopics going forward. > **[The Notorious John Dillinger Used a Wooden Gun to Bluff his Way Out of Prison...](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/12/19/dillingers-wooden-gun/amp/)** > > John Dillinger started his life of crime early. At the age of 21, he was incarcerated for the first time after a botched grocery store holdup, resulting ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/743 "2021-10-25T22:55:44Z")
The local news just reported that he was aiming the gun at the camera, which tracks. My understanding is that you don’t ever (at least not since The Crow) point a gun that is capable of firing any type of load directly at a person. They fake it with camera angles, fake guns, and CGI. Speaking of The Crow, I wonder how often they check guns that are shot more than once in a scene. Like bam bam bam. It’s possible for something to get stuck in the barrel after the first bam that wouldn’t have been found by the initial check. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/744 "2021-10-25T23:04:12Z")
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