# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/61 "2021-10-22T06:25:53Z")
I worked on Deadwood where almost every actor and extra had some sort of weapon. Safety was paramount and anyone pointing a weapon at another person would have been fired. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/62 "2021-10-22T06:26:02Z")
So? We don’t know if he was handed an improperly loaded weapon by the weapons master. The weapons master on any set I’ve ever been on won’t even allow people to handle the magazine or work the slide. You get handed the gun, told where to point it and when to pull the trigger. It may very well be that Baldwin was handed a live weapon completely unaware. He may be as innocent as the guy that launched the Challenger. On the other hand, he may have been horsing around on set and negligently pointed a loaded weapon at a cinematographer, we don’t know, but without an investigation we don’t know what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/63 "2021-10-22T06:26:03Z")
You don’t know that any of that happened, tho. You don’t. None of us here do. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/64 "2021-10-22T06:28:30Z")
This is a fair take. Since none of us knows all the facts we can only speculate. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/65 "2021-10-22T06:30:33Z")
We know that two people were shot and Baldwin held the weapon. The two people shot were crew. So the shooting wasnt a part of any filming. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/66 "2021-10-22T06:32:05Z")
Do you _know_ they weren’t filming? I’ve seen a story that says they were filming and another that says they were rehearsing in this very thread. Do you _know_ they weren’t filming? How do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/67 "2021-10-22T06:32:49Z")
Because the victims were the DoC and the director. Why would Baldwin be aiming at them? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/68 "2021-10-22T06:33:09Z")
So now you know that he was aiming at them? How do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/69 "2021-10-22T06:33:42Z")
Id say their bodies lying on the ground is evidence of that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/70 "2021-10-22T06:34:57Z")
Dude, you should call the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office and tell them what you’ve told us here; you do seem to _know_ a lot about what happened. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/71 "2021-10-22T06:36:32Z")
This is what we all know. Do you believe that the bullet/s did some Three Stooges bending to hit the victims? We know what happened but we dont know how or why. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/72 "2021-10-22T06:45:41Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Do you believe that the bullet/s did some Three Stooges bending to hit the victims? You clearly do not know what happened, as there would have been no live rounds on set. Therefore there were no bullets. What happened involved something else. But we don’t know exactly what or how or why, beyond who held the prop gun when it did. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/73 "2021-10-22T07:42:36Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Because the victims were the DoC and the director. Why would Baldwin be aiming at them? Seems to me that someone who worked on _Deadwood_ should be aware that actors are commonly asked to aim their weapons at or very close to the camera. [![](https://assets1.ignimgs.com/thumbs/userUploaded/2019/5/14/deadwoodthumb-1557867605227.jpg) ](https://assets1.ignimgs.com/thumbs/userUploaded/2019/5/14/deadwoodthumb-1557867605227.jpg) Without knowing anything else factually, I believe the most likely scenario here is something very much like the above, in which they were planning a camera angle with Baldwin aiming almost directly at the camera, and the cinematographer was in the line of the weapon for the rehearsal but was planning to be elsewhere when film actually rolled. Given my experience, that feels like, far and away, the most probable explanation. But hey, if you want to accuse Baldwin of manslaughter or murder, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/74 "2021-10-22T08:01:29Z")
There’s also the fact that whatever that was shot out of the barrel might not have been aerodynamic, so it could have veered wildly out of the gun’s sight range left or right. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/75 "2021-10-22T08:40:57Z")
I dunno - is it possible that whatever came out of the gun hit something that shattered into sharp pieces that caused injury? If the gun barrel shattered then someone standing outside the direct line of fire might have been hurt but I have little no knowledge of prop guns and whether or not that’s a possibility. Could the set armorer have screwed up? Or, yeah, Baldwin could have been a dick and goofed around in a fatal manner but we don’t know that. Baldwin is not one of my favorite people and he’s got a reputation but that does not make him automatically guilty. We’ll have more information in a bit, after the people actually on the ground do some investigating. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/76 "2021-10-22T08:42:53Z")
“Aiming” implies intent. A gun could be _pointing_ at someone without the holder of the gun _aiming_ it at the person. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/77 "2021-10-22T09:09:07Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Given these facts — it was a professional film set, there was an armorer present, the incident happened during a rehearsal prior to actual filming — Baldwin bears zero responsibility. He would not have been expected to re-check the gun after the armorer handed it to him. It just doesn’t work like that. First rule of handling firearms is that anything is loaded until you check it personally. It doesn’t matter if you just watched the person cycle and check the chamber before it is handed to you. You do it again as soon as it is in your hands. In any case, this seems to be the perfect opening to a Columbo episode. Famous actor makes a murder look like an accident, cue Columbo breaking it down. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/78 "2021-10-22T09:18:24Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > First rule of handling firearms is that anything is loaded until you check it personally. It doesn’t matter if you just watched the person cycle and check the chamber before it is handed to you. You do it again as soon as it is in your hands. Except props aren’t firearms. And that’s not what happens on set. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/79 "2021-10-22T09:27:39Z")
Okay, so let’s establish an obvious question here: is it normal in a Hollywood production to point a prop gun (whether filled with blanks or not) at another human being for the purpose of creating film? Certainly there are scenes where we see an actor point a gun at another human being and fire. Is it acceptable to do this with guns loaded with blanks, or do they use hollywood tricks to avoid that situation, like having the person not actually aim at the other person but only appear to do so through camera/editing/perspective tricks, or use CGI rather than blanks in those instances, or what? Or is it normal to hand someone with a gun with blanks and then film them aiming it at another actor and pulling the trigger? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/80 "2021-10-22T09:40:50Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > His post is an attempt to shield Baldwin from any blame. Baldwin should have never pointed his weapon at another person. Baldwin never should have pulled the trigger. There is no excuse for that. So how does one film tv/movies with guns if they can’t be aimed at someone? Didn’t anybody read the armorer handed Baldwin the weapon that was supposed to be ‘safe’ with blanks or rehersal rounds? It is not Baldwins fault he took the gun and did the requisite rehersal take that would have been duplicated sometime in the next hour or so in the exact same conditions. It might have killed the person during the final take instead of the rehersal. [that being said, I also don’t understand why they just can’t dry fire and add effects with CGI later. I have a feeling that is what the industry is going to go to now. Much safer.] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=5)