# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/946 "2021-10-27T18:09:36Z")
I was kinda sad when I saw the sexy selfies of the armorer. Personally I’m fine with the pix and however she choose to live her private life. I was sad because I knew when I saw them they they would do nothing but screw her over; that nothing good could come of them being splashed all over the tabloids. She can kink out and do hardcore porn for all I care (not that she is) but when you are trying to be taken seriously as a Hollywood prop armorer you might not want to have cheesecake shots all over the place. It should be fine to make your sexual fetishes public if you want and not be hurt by it. But out society isn’t ready for that. > [@Atamasama](#): > > You might be right. We know that misogyny is not rare in Hollywood. Or the World. > [@](#): > > And the language I had problems with came from people in “the business”. By “the business” do you mean “the industry”? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/947 "2021-10-27T18:23:14Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > By “the business” do you mean “the industry”? Show business. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/948 "2021-10-27T18:28:53Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Show business It was a joke. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/949 "2021-10-27T18:35:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > We’re running late, we’re going to lose the light! C’mon! We did this 4 times already. The guns are cold. We get it. Move it before the have to do another day of location shots.” Why can’t all cylinders be test triggered toward the ground before proclaiming it a “cold gun”? That would take like, what, 10 seconds? ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/950 "2021-10-27T18:40:33Z")
Regarding the armourer removing the cartridges from the gun after the incident , I would imagine there was a certain amount of “holy fuck what was in here, how did that happen, what else is in there” about it, I doubt anyone was thinking about preservation of evidence at that point. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/951 "2021-10-27T18:42:29Z")
I would think that if they did test firings, it would have to be done safely. The actor couldn’t just willy-nilly fire into the ground. There would have to be safety protocols to avoid injuries if there happened to be bullets in the gun. Likely there would need to be announcements where work stops and everyone takes cover in case a bullet comes out and ricochets or something. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/952 "2021-10-27T18:48:12Z")
I meant in addition to the existing protocols. The alternative is these “test firings” being in the direction of crew during the take. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/953 "2021-10-27T18:51:38Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > We’re running late, we’re going to lose the light! C’mon! We did this 4 times already. The guns are cold. We get it. Move it before the have to do another day of location shots.” > > Why can’t all cylinders be test triggered toward the ground before proclaiming it a “cold gun”? That would take like, what, 10 seconds? Popping open the gun and checking the cylinder would take less time. This isn’t a problem in search of a solution. New protocols do not need to be made. Guns don’t need to be banned. The procedures that should be in place and enforced are simple and common sense. They just weren’t followed. There are probably lots of aspects to the armorer’s job that I don’t know but right now without additional training I could guarantee no one would get shot if I had that job. The safety aspect really isn’t that hard it just requires attention to detail. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/954 "2021-10-27T18:57:52Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The procedures that should be in place and enforced are simple and common sense. They just weren’t followed. If you have safety procedures that would prevent an incident if followed, and an incident happens because they weren’t followed, the solution isn’t to create more procedures. I am totally in agreement with you. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/955 "2021-10-27T18:59:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Popping open the gun and checking the cylinder Not possible for this weapon, which uses a fixed cylinder and a loading gate. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/956 "2021-10-27T18:59:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Popping open the gun and checking the cylinder would take less time But doesn’t that require distinguishing a live or blank round from a dummy round? Pulling a trigger to see if the gun goes boom takes no specialized training and is something anybody on set can do to confirm for themselves that it is, indeed, a “cold gun” without having to completely take the armorer’s word for it. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/957 "2021-10-27T19:01:58Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > We’re running late, we’re going to lose the light! C’mon! We did this 4 times already. The guns are cold. We get it. Move it before the have to do another day of location shots.” > > Why can’t all cylinders be test triggered toward the ground before proclaiming it a “cold gun”? That would take like, what, 10 seconds? Some armorers do exactly that. > [@](#): > > I try to fire all of the dummy rounds at the floor in front of the assistant director. Nothing happens. I then present the gun to the talent, also firing at the floor so they see. If they are pointing it at another player, I also show them. > **[I work with firearms on movie sets. There are multiple steps in place to...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/10/26/alec-baldwin-prop-gun-shooting-movie-sets-avoid-accidents/6142800001/)** > > There are so many levels of gun safety measures on movie sets. That's what makes the fatal shooting on 'Rust' so incredibly rare and even more tragic. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/958 "2021-10-27T19:06:09Z")
The safety rules are very comprehensive and they work. The only change that I’d recommend is required work experience as an assistant armorer. Learning on the job isn’t acceptable. There should be a requirement that someone has documented movie set experience before they get the main job. That may already be a union rule. But it needs to be a licensing requirement. A movie set Armorer should be licensed and there should be training requirements. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/959 "2021-10-27T19:10:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The only change that I’d recommend is required work experience as an assistant armorer. Learning on the job isn’t acceptable I don’t know why I thought this, but I thought the filmmaking trades should surely have some kind of apprenticeship structure. They’re as technical as some of the construction trades (in some cases they even do things similar to construction), so seem like a bad match to “learn on the job without supervision”. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/960 "2021-10-27T19:16:48Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I don’t know why I thought this, but I thought the filmmaking trades should surely have some kind of apprenticeship structure. We have an idiot notion in this country that talent can be transmitted through DNA, hence, Lon Chaney, Jr., George W. Bush, and this armorer. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/961 "2021-10-27T19:17:44Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Why can’t all cylinders be test triggered toward the ground before proclaiming it a “cold gun”? That would take like, what, 10 seconds? If the gun were empty or loaded with dummy rounds, that would be okay. But you’d have to find a safe place to risk a discharge, which may not be anywhere on the set so 10 seconds doesn’t seem like a good estimate. If the gun were loaded with blanks, you would have to reload the gun with new blanks. Then how do you prove those are safe? You are back at step 1. Inspecting the rounds by opening the gun is the best way to confirm that everything in the gun is as it should be. It works for all situations, whether the gun should be empty, have dummy rounds, or blanks. > [@Loach](#): > > New protocols do not need to be made. Guns don’t need to be banned. The procedures that should be in place and enforced are simple and common sense. They just weren’t followed. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/962 "2021-10-27T19:17:53Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Her father is a famous name in the business, so she should have had at least some insight into the job, and known what was required. If she was in any doubt, you’d think she would have called her father and discussed it. Works in theory, but how’d that work out with George W.? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/963 "2021-10-27T19:20:08Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > If the gun were empty or loaded with dummy rounds, that would be okay. Like a “cold gun”, right? That’s all as was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/964 "2021-10-27T19:22:36Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Popping open the gun and checking the cylinder > > Not possible for this weapon, which uses a fixed cylinder and a loading gate. I found this video on YouTube talking about the Colt SAA. I thought 1 video might be worth a thousand posts talking about this type of gun. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/CWOwdEiKuxw/maxresdefault.jpg "Colt - Single Action Army (SAA)- How to use and Operate") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOwdEiKuxw) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/965 "2021-10-27T19:22:54Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > > > Her father is a famous name in the business, so she should have had at least some insight into the job, and known what was required. If she was in any doubt, you’d think she would have called her father and discussed it. > > Works in theory, but how’d that work out with George W.? Of course, another possibility is that her father told her she wasn’t ready to be an armorer, and she ignored him and went ahead anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=49)