# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/81 "2021-10-22T09:46:48Z")
Scenes are filmed showing someone firing a weapon. Very rarely is there a scene where you actually see both the shooter and the shootee in the same frame. He really didnt need the gun to rehearse in the first place. He certainly didnt need to aim at crew members. Even with plastic/rubber guns you dont point them at others. How the gun discharged is still unknown. While I highly highly doubt he had any bad motive in this he was negligent in the way he handled his weapon imo. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/82 "2021-10-22T10:03:37Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > He really didnt need the gun to rehearse in the first place. You think actors rehearse shooting scenes like this? [![](https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/02/24/63/17/360_F_224631753_gvsQykTBpUquwyETSQgFML4AFsNfn8oJ.jpg) ](https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/02/24/63/17/360_F_224631753_gvsQykTBpUquwyETSQgFML4AFsNfn8oJ.jpg) > [@madsircool](#): > > Very rarely is there a scene where you actually see both the shooter and the shootee in the same frame. ![](https://c.tenor.com/Q67nUNNvS4YAAAAC/john-wick.gif) ![](https://c.tenor.com/KFyN-_D9OHkAAAAC/john-wick-john-wick-kill.gif) ![](https://c.tenor.com/N294JJnJAT4AAAAC/the-matrix-the.gif) [![](https://i.imgur.com/l7yiMdB.gif) ](https://i.imgur.com/l7yiMdB.gif) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/83 "2021-10-22T10:08:44Z")
They do rehearse like that, more or less. And _John Wick_’s gunfire is entirely digital CGI effects. And that Monty Python sketch you can see John Cleese is not pointing the gun directly at Graham Chapman, it’s way off to the side. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/84 "2021-10-22T10:10:08Z")
The bottom line is that there’s no good reason to have guns capable of actually firing a shot (blank or otherwise) to be on set. They filmed _Star Trek_ with plastic props and added the phaser effects later; they can do the same with thoroughly disabled gun props. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/85 "2021-10-22T10:12:09Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > And _John Wick_ ’s gunfire is entirely digital CGI effects. And that Monty Python sketch you can see John Cleese is not pointing the gun directly at Graham Chapman, it’s way off to the side. We see the shooter and shootee in the same frame, do we not? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/86 "2021-10-22T10:13:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > is it normal in a Hollywood production to point a prop gun (whether filled with blanks or not) at another human being for the purpose of creating film? In one of the performances I mentioned above, I was required to hold the other actor from behind with the weapon pressed against their head, as in a hostage type situation. As you can imagine, we were very, very, _very_ careful in how this scene was staged and performed. > [@aruvqan](#): > > I also don’t understand why they just can’t dry fire and add effects with CGI later. I have a feeling that is what the industry is going to go to now. This is absolutely the standard for modern-set productions, especially for weapons with minimal smoke and recoil. See the John Wick clips above. But for a period piece with old-fashioned firearms, the jump of the weapon in the hand and the smoke are very hard to fake. The movie in question was a Western, so prop guns with actual discharge are not unexpected. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/87 "2021-10-22T10:13:37Z")
The actor is usually filmed shooting in close up and cut to someone getting hit. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/88 "2021-10-22T10:14:33Z")
Not in the examples I showed above. By your logic, Keanu Reeves is being irresponsible and unprofessional by pointing a prop gun at someone on the set. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/89 "2021-10-22T10:15:57Z")
Oh, and regarding this: > [@Smapti](#): > > You think actors rehearse shooting scenes like this? It’s actually very common for actors, especially those with little weapons experience, to get in the bad habit of making “bang bang!” or “pew pew!” noises vocally because their guns are inert and nonfunctional during rehearsal, and the actor instinctively fills in the missing noise. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/90 "2021-10-22T10:16:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We see the shooter and shootee in the same frame, do we not? - He said “rarely” and it is rare - _Monty Python_ was like 1973, and they used what is essentially a cap gun - When it’s 200% safe to do so, they will choreograph it that way more often. No guns are actually being fired in _John Wick_ so there is zero risk ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/91 "2021-10-22T10:16:29Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > His post is an attempt to shield Baldwin from any blame. Baldwin should have never pointed his weapon at another person. Baldwin never should have pulled the trigger. There is no excuse for that. Actually his excuse is that actors are often paid to point weapons at people and pull the trigger. That’s how acting and props _work_. It’s not a firing range, it’s a movie set. The set and props are supposed to be safed by technicians, and the actor doesn’t oversee those people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/92 "2021-10-22T10:16:51Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > It’s actually very common for actors, especially those with little weapons experience, to get in the bad habit of making “bang bang!” or “pew pew!” noises vocally because their guns are inert and nonfunctional during rehearsal, and the actor instinctively fills in the missing noise. But they are using a prop, right? I can’t see how you could effectively rehearse the scene without feeling the weight of the prop in your hand and knowing how it’ll react when you use it. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/93 "2021-10-22T10:18:23Z")
Yes. It’s either the actual prop firearm, rendered safe by the armorer or weapons officer for rehearsal purposes (to be loaded later when cameras roll), or it’s a separate safety prop with the same shape and weight. In this case, it sounds like it was the actual prop firearm, mishandled by the armorer. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/94 "2021-10-22T10:20:23Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > It’s actually very common for actors, especially those with little weapons experience, to get in the bad habit of making “bang bang!” or “pew pew!” noises vocally because their guns are inert and nonfunctional during rehearsal, and the actor instinctively fills in the missing noise. Heh. Reminds me of Ewan McGregor’s first scenes doing a lightsaber battle, and being told he was “making the noise”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/95 "2021-10-22T10:22:04Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > But for a period piece with old-fashioned firearms, the jump of the weapon in the hand and the smoke are very hard to fake. Maybe they could hire people with specialized skills in pretending that the stuff in the script is happening for real, if there are any such people to be found in Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/96 "2021-10-22T10:23:22Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Maybe they could hire people with specialized skills in pretending that the stuff in the script is happening for real I have a sneaking suspicion that the Venn diagram of “A-list Hollywood actors active in the Year of Our Lord 2021” and “People who are intimately familiar with the use and handling of 19th century firearms” is two completely separate and distinct circles. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/97 "2021-10-22T10:37:06Z")
[quote=“snfaulkner, post:78, topic:952960, full:true”]Except props aren’t firearms. And that’s not what happens on set. [/quote] A pistol isn’t a rifle, but if something can fly out of the end and do damage, then you should treat it the same no matter what it’s called. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/98 "2021-10-22T10:39:54Z")
Are the actors being paid to be firearms experts, or are they being paid to act? In an industry as heavily unionized as Hollywood is, this is a very important question. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/99 "2021-10-22T10:41:42Z")
The first thing I thought was “This is a set-up”. To get somebody killed, or to wreck Baldwin’s life. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/100 "2021-10-22T10:42:31Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Even with plastic/rubber guns you dont point them at others. We do it in training all the time. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/S6BLAftSzK4/maxresdefault.jpg "ASP Red Training Glock") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6BLAftSzK4) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=6)