# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1087 "2021-10-29T17:00:47Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > He says the cartridge only has the primer, and no powder. Semi-Auto rifle. I’m a little skeptical about that. He’s wrong. There’s a primer chemical in the rim of the cartridge but there is also a regular smokeless powder charge ignited by the primer to push the bullet. Even if it were true that rimfire cartridges were all primer, it wouldn’t tell us much about the properties of centerfire cartridges, like the .45 Long Colt, that are designed to have a primer ignite a powder charge. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1088 "2021-10-29T17:01:57Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > You would need different graduated sticks for different barrels which is another potential source of error. - Hold stick next to gun with the far end in line with the back of the cylinder and fingers at the end of the barrel. It’s calibrated. One stick fits all. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1089 "2021-10-29T17:03:28Z")
Fair enough. Maybe some shooters do this. I don’t shoot single action revolvers. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1090 "2021-10-29T17:06:44Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Fair enough. Maybe some shooters do this. I don’t shoot single action revolvers. - Neither do I. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1091 "2021-10-29T17:07:56Z")
Future news story. _Actor accidentally shot by broken off piece of stick._ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1092 "2021-10-29T17:12:42Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Not necessarily. It has to be shown that they were negligent in hiring or in practice. > > If you hired a driver, and that driver subsequently drives drunk and kills someone, you are not responsible unless it can be shown that you knew the driver was a major risk and hired him anyway. Even then, I think that would be a heavy lift in court. From what’s in this thread (and, of course, we here at the Straight Dope know all), the AD has a history of safety problems; there were misfires earlier in the week; ALL OF THE CAMERA CREW QUIT BECAUSE OF SAFETY CONCERNS - the director’s getting the hell sued out of him; one or more producers are getting the hell sued out of them. Yeah, the practices by the armorer are questionable; she may face criminal liability. All of the combined safety concerns on the set that were ignored - that goes up the ladder. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1093 "2021-10-29T17:26:06Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > He’s wrong. There’s a primer chemical in the rim of the cartridge but there is also a regular smokeless powder charge ignited by the primer to push the bullet. Neighbor says it’s a special cartridge that ONLY is the primer, with no powder charge. He doesn’t reload I’m sure. Not that you can reload a rimfire. Perhaps he is buying a very low power .22 cartridge. Which is dubious as well. Not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1094 "2021-10-29T17:31:00Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > ALL OF THE CAMERA CREW QUIT BECAUSE OF SAFETY CONCERNS - the director’s getting the hell sued out of him; one or more producers are getting the hell sued out of them. Has anyone published the resignation letter? From what I’ve read, the crew walked out when they weren’t getting paid or getting hotel rooms after long days. Covid protocols and perhas gun safety were just some of their concerns. There are apparently Facebook posts pre-shooting that complain about pay and hotels but nothing about firearms danger. They claimed after the shooting that the resignation letter also complained about gun safety. > [@enipla](#): > > Neighbor says it’s a special cartridge that ONLY is the primer, with no powder charge. He doesn’t reload I’m sure. Not that you can reload a rimfire. Serves me right. Apparently there is such a thing. [https://topammunitions.com/?product=aguila-22lr-ammunition-quiet-colibri-500-rds](https://topammunitions.com/?product=aguila-22lr-ammunition-quiet-colibri-500-rds) They warn not to fire it from rifles because the projectile might get lodged in the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1095 "2021-10-29T17:44:40Z")
Yeah, but you did provide good info - [Squib load wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_load) It sort of stuns me though that a primer only .22 could harm much of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1096 "2021-10-29T17:46:32Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Serves me right. Apparently there is such a thing. **Colibri** makes his own ammo now? 😃 No wonder we never see him around anymore, he must be busy. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1097 "2021-10-29T17:47:36Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I recently shot a .357 into the ground to make sure that a bear wasn’t in our cars. They open the doors and get in (twice now). The noise would get the bears attention and I would at least see the car rock a little before I approached the car. Prompting the classic rhetorical question, “Does a bear shit in @enipla 's car?” ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1098 "2021-10-29T17:52:43Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Prompting the classic rhetorical question, “Does a bear shit in @enipla 's car?” Not yet. Leaves plenty of footprints though. Oddly, except from some scratches near the door handle, no damage. We have actually been warned NOT to lock the cars because they will just pull the door handle off. Depending on the time of year, I’m very cautious when I step out side. Had a mamma bear and two cubs on the deck about 2 months ago. You do NOT want to step out and face that. This is a real hi-jack though. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1099 "2021-10-29T17:55:37Z")
.22 CB loads. I’ve used something similar to snipe squirrels. But they won’t cycle a semi-auto, and they are contra-indicated for rifles. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1100 "2021-10-29T17:55:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > > > Serves me right. Apparently there is such a thing. > > **Colibri** makes his own ammo now? 😃 > > No wonder we never see him around anymore, he must be busy. - [Forgotten Weapons-2.7mm Kolibri](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THsDpGJcpk8) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1101 "2021-10-29T17:57:37Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > That will work SOME of the time, but you’re living in a fantasy world if you think it will prevent all such incidents. Nobody expects perfect. The purpose of the law, regulations, etc., should be better average outcomes and better probabilities. “You can’t achieve 100 percent perfection, so you’re living in a dream world” is the same kind of lazy thinking. Nobody expects perfect, and failure to achieve perfection is not a reason to refrain from taking action. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1102 "2021-10-29T17:58:31Z")
Thank you for that. That is amazing. I think that’s about the size of my car key/fob for my car. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1103 "2021-10-29T17:59:24Z")
That statement from the armorer is pure bs designed to cover her ass. There isn’t supposed to be any real ammunition on set? Your job is to check the guns to make sure. The producers pushed you too hard for you to check properly? Your job is to check the guns and make sure they are safe. If you can’t do the job properly you should resign. The guns were always locked and under your control? Clearly not but your job was to double check. Other people accidentally discharged guns? Your job is to know which guns are loaded and which aren’t and to make sure that the others on set know this too and if someone is being careless to either educate them or go over their heads to assure that they don’t do it again. There was a gun with a live bullet in it. Your job was to make sure that never ever happens. Your job is not to assume that everything is safe. Your job is to check and double check to make sure. That does not absolve the AD who admitted that he grabbed a gun, did not have it adequately checked yet proclaimed it safe. That seems to me to be gross negligence. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1104 "2021-10-29T18:17:02Z")
A little bit of a read, but this sorts out the producer/executive producer questions a little bit. > **[‘Rust’ EPs Disavow Responsibility For Troubled Alec Baldwin Movie: “No...](https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-producers-liability-haylna-hutchins-death-investigation-1234864223/)** > > UPDATED: As the Santa Fe Sheriff’s Department continues to probe the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of the Alec Baldwin Western indie Rust last week, the questio… And to piggyback on @Sam_Stone’s post about the terrible reporting: I think another thing that is clear is that no matter what the written rules say, they are “followed” in many different ways over many different productions. Even direct quotes or actual videos of supposed experts don’t seem to be able to agree on simple things like what a cold gun is compared to a hot gun. Also, many of the quotes are from grips or gaffers etc., who I would not expect to know exactly what the rules are for hot or cold guns. Or any of the terminology used. As an aside to @Bill_Door , if I understand your description of the scene you filmed with a gun pointed at your head, you had a hot gun used when there was no need to. You said the gun was loaded with rounds that were made to cycle the weapon and eject the casing. If that had been fired while held to your head you wouldn’t be writing here anymore. It’s especially bad that it was a semi auto so there was no need to have any ammo in the weapon at all since the viewer can’t tell the difference. So your story actually shows a lack of safety rather than an example of good safety. And I still don’t understand the putting BBs in the cartridge to prove it’s safe. Introducing a projectile into a gun when it’s not needed is the opposite of safe. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1105 "2021-10-29T18:23:32Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > And I still don’t understand the putting BBs in the cartridge to prove it’s safe. Introducing a projectile into a gun when it’s not needed is the opposite of safe. My guess is that it could be shook and you would hear BB’s. Powder would not make that sound. But it’s still stupid. Just don’t put a primer in it. Done. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1106 "2021-10-29T18:24:53Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > As an aside to @Bill_Door , if I understand your description of the scene you filmed with a gun pointed at your head, you had a hot gun used when there was no need to. You said the gun was loaded with rounds that were made to cycle the weapon and eject the casing. If that had been fired while held to your head you wouldn’t be writing here anymore. No, the gun had ‘practice rounds’ or dummies, not blanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=56)