# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1327 "2021-11-03T22:51:48Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > In those thousands of movies I would wager with all the different takes and etc, probably many millions, possibly billions of rounds have been fired on American movie sets (rounds encompassing things like blanks, squibs et al.) In all that time we’ve had a small handful of deaths. > > Not arguing for or against your point, but I got to wondering: One billion rounds fired during the past 100 years would be about 27,000 rounds every single day. > [@Folly](#): > > Are you taking into account the Rambo franchise?.. I guess a half of that billion rounds were fired in “Commando”. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1328 "2021-11-04T00:41:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > Something to keep in mind for the people who seem to randomly be obsessed with enforcing rules of gun safety from the “real world”, that by necessity are very regularly broken on movie sets–Baldwin made a good point in his roadside interview. > > You can continue to hand-wave gun safety away all you want. Movie sets have the same due-diligence as any other occupation using guns. > > The cavalier attitude defending this lack of control in movies is the reason someone is dead. In this unfinished movie alone there were 3 other incidences. That’s not a good record at all. The response to this has already been posted: > [@Cervaise](#): > > Your contributions to this discussion demonstrate that you don’t understand the topic and have made no effort to remedy this. Expect no further response. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1329 "2021-11-04T01:39:58Z")
An interesting legal take on what happened (and he notes it is speculative until more information comes out): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wXmAeMQCvZQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Is Alec Baldwin Going to Jail for the Death of Halyna Hutchins?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmAeMQCvZQ) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1330 "2021-11-04T02:16:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The thing is that normal gun safety is incompatible with making movies. It’s hard to point a gun at someone’s head while also following the “don’t point a gun at somebody” rule. So there needs to be alternative safety measures that _mitigate the additional risk_ presented by having to break some of the standard safety rules. Not really. You don’t point a loaded gun at anyone. Where safety rules differ is the use of blanks. It requires more levels of redundancy, not less. When gun safety is talked about it’s not a list carried down the mountain by Moses. It’s a concept designed to formulate procedures that have redundant oversight whenever possible. This clearly failed in the filming of Rust. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1331 "2021-11-04T02:20:09Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > > [@Andy\_L](#): > > > > A more plausible, but still **very** unlikely revenge scheme is “I’ll put this live bullet in the box, and when it’s discovered, > > It’s especially implausible when you remember that > > > Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office investigators have collected hundreds of rounds of ammunition — some suspected to be live — from the set of the Western film _Rust_ at Bonanza Creek Ranch Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1332 "2021-11-04T02:22:05Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The response to this has already been posted: The failure to follow safety procedures has already been demonstrated. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1333 "2021-11-04T04:13:09Z")
This is probably the best link in the thread. I can’t recommend it highly enough. No matter how knowledgeable you are about guns or movie sets or both, you really should watch this. Thanks for posting it, @Whack-a-Mole. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1334 "2021-11-04T04:53:29Z")
Well it wasn’t a loaded gun right? Except it was. The pointing of the gun was reasonable provided the gun had been rendered safe by the protocols in use on movie sets. Those protocols broke down and this is the result. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1335 "2021-11-04T06:00:53Z")
This does not relate to what happened on this set but is interesting when it comes to live rounds on a movie set (for below, this was filming the movie _The Deer Hunter_: > According to Cimino, De Niro requested a live cartridge in the revolver for the scene in which he subjects John Cazale’s character to an impromptu game of Russian roulette, to heighten the intensity of the situation. Cazale agreed without protest,[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter#cite_note-Realizing-8) but obsessively rechecked the gun before each take to make sure that the live round wasn’t next in the chamber.[[19]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter#cite_note-DirCommentary-19) [SOURCE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter#Vietnam_and_the_Russian_roulette_scenes) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1336 "2021-11-04T09:35:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You don’t point a loaded gun at anyone. Where safety rules differ is the use of blanks. It requires more levels of redundancy, not less. Ah yes, where you ignore the number one rule of gun safety: “treat every gun as if it is loaded”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1338 "2021-11-04T13:05:18Z")
This is a joke? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1340 "2021-11-04T13:39:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This does not relate to what happened on this set but is interesting when it comes to live rounds on a movie set (for below, this was filming the movie _The Deer Hunter_: > > > According to Cimino, De Niro requested a live cartridge in the revolver for the scene in which he subjects John Cazale’s character to an impromptu game of Russian roulette, to heighten the intensity of the situation. Cazale agreed without protest,[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter#cite_note-Realizing-8) but obsessively rechecked the gun before each take to make sure that the live round wasn’t next in the chamber.[[19]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter#cite_note-DirCommentary-19) [SOURCE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter#Vietnam_and_the_Russian_roulette_scenes) You know I’d heard that anecdote before, I can’t remember who it was with, but there was an interview I saw once with one of the actors who was in that film (not Cazale–he was actually dying of terminal cancer while he filmed his part), and I remember them mentioning how obsessively Cazale was with continually checking and rechecking the gun. I remember just kind of thinking of it as a “wow that’s crazy” kind of thing. With all this talk about film gun safety, it definitely seems like it wasn’t being followed on the film to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![tricoteuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tricoteuse/32/4334_2.png) [@tricoteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tricoteuse)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1341 "2021-11-04T14:00:18Z")
Exactly right. The protocols in place work fine almost all of the time. However, when the person whose job it is to ensure that those protocols are followed slacks off on the job is when disasters happen. It’s like how most swimming pool installations go without a hitch. The contractor gets all the necessary permits and makes sure there are no underground pipes or wires in the way. If you get a shady contractor who takes shortcuts and botches the wiring and zaps someone, the problem isn’t having electrical components anywhere near swimming pools because “electricity and water never mix.” The problem is you had a shitty contractor. The problem here wasn’t with the gun safety protocols. The problem was they had a shitty armorer. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1342 "2021-11-04T15:19:35Z")
What **Ascenray** replied to has apparently been nuked, just if anyone’s confused. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1343 "2021-11-04T15:29:46Z")
Thank you, I was. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1344 "2021-11-04T15:58:35Z")
Related to this, Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson has announced that real guns will be banned from all future movies made by his production company, Seven Bucks Productions. > **[Dwayne Johnson announces his productions will only use rubber guns after Rust...](https://theweek.com/news/1006782/dwayne-johnson-announces-his-productions-will-only-use-rubber-guns-after-rust-shooting)** > > The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week > [@](#): > > Dwayne Johnson at the premiere of his new film Red Notice said movies and TV shows made by his production company, Seven Bucks Productions, will no longer use real guns on set, Variety reports. The decision was made after Hutchins was killed in an accidental shooting during rehearsal of a scene on Rust. The film’s director was also injured. > > “We’re going to switch over to rubber guns, and we’re going to take care of it in post,” Johnson told Variety. “We’re not going to worry about the dollars; we won’t worry about what it costs.” ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1345 "2021-11-04T16:06:40Z")
That seems like a narrow answer to a larger problem of on-site safety. It also puts a lot more work on CGI designers who, if I’m not mistaken, are not unionized. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1346 "2021-11-04T16:14:12Z")
Addressing one aspect of a problem - one which is very much in the public eye right now - doesn’t necessarily mean that Johnson is ignoring the overall issue of safety. I applaud his stance. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1347 "2021-11-04T16:15:51Z")
Something that has occurred to me: Could a prop gun with an artificial recoil mechanism be created? Basically, something like a gun-shaped [Shake Weight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwIJlEsIVZQ). Basically, the prop gun would jolt backward and forward when “fired”. I doubt it would look super-accurate when compared to an actual gun’s recoil. But maybe playing around with the film speed in the editing room could make a general back-and-forth shaking motion (NOT a repeated vibrating or oscillating motion) look more realistic? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1348 "2021-11-04T16:20:39Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Something that has occurred to me: Could a prop gun with an artificial recoil mechanism be created? Basically, something like a gun-shaped [Shake Weight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwIJlEsIVZQ). Basically, the prop gun would jolt backward and forward when “fired”. there’s a post upthread of a company that modifies guns so they can produce a flash and also prevent projectiles from exiting the gun. That should produce a backward jolt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=68)