# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1469 "2021-11-08T16:08:33Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > But for a dummy round, why have a primer in it AT ALL. The primer helps to absorb the shock of the firing pin when dry firing. Extensive dry firing without a primer can damage the firing pin and hammer. Primers might also benefit realism if there are “point of view” shots of the gun being loaded. Whether these marginal benefits are worth of the marginal risk of using inert or spent primers rather than eliminating the primer altogether is a judgment call. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1470 "2021-11-08T16:35:05Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > That would be an easy check for the armorer and actors that it’s not a live round. If there is one thing we know reasonably for certain is that the armorer missed all the easy checks when loading the gun. What’s one more easy check to miss. The only way out is if someone else loaded a functional cartridge when it was reasonable for the gun to be out of her control. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1471 "2021-11-08T17:06:11Z")
Good interview with camera operator: > **[‘Rust’ Camera Assistant on Safety Issues, Pay Irregularities and Producer...](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-crew-member-interview-safety-1235043092/)** > > Lane Luper, who walked off the New Mexico movie set with six colleagues in the camera department before Halyna Hutchins died, says that among the crew, "Everybody's going in and out of these cycles of depression." ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1472 "2021-11-08T17:08:13Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > The primer helps to absorb the shock of the firing pin when dry firing. Extensive dry firing without a primer can damage the firing pin and hammer. That’s the whole point behind Snap Caps. Where the primer should be is a spring loaded metal plate that will give a bit when the firing pin hits it, without leaving a permanent dimple as with a genuine primer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap\_cap#/media/File:Snap\_caps.jpg ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1473 "2021-11-08T17:19:15Z")
Is this the clearest naming of producer names we’ve gotten so far? Ryan Winterstern and Nathan Klingher were new to me, though I admit I’m not keeping up with the articles coming out. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1474 "2021-11-08T17:41:15Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I’ve read, I think all of this thread, but something is bugging me re: identification of dummy rounds. > > So, for a revolver, that is pointed at the camera, you need to be able to see the bullets in the cylinder. I get that. I own a revolver. > > But for a dummy round, why have a primer in it AT ALL. I guess you could still put bb’s in it too. But no primer, no bang. That would be an easy check for the armorer and actors that it’s not a live round. > > The armorer has to build or buy these. But why the primer? Or a ‘dimpled’ (I assume a used primer) makes no sense. How many shots have you seen where the revolver’s cylinder is open so that the hero/villain can reload it or is checking how many bullets are in the gun? That’s my best guess. I’ve been watching guns in shows in a whole new way lately. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1475 "2021-11-08T17:53:57Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Is this the clearest naming of producer names we’ve gotten so far? I hadn’t seen that before. He also makes it clear that Baldwin had nothing to do with the actual running of the production. It looks like the previous info we’ve had about the production being badly run and the crew being treated like shit were understatements. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1476 "2021-11-08T18:13:02Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > How many shots have you seen where the revolver’s cylinder is open so that the hero/villain can reload it or is checking how many bullets are in the gun? That’s my best guess. Even then, the shot is almost certainly an insert and those can be shot entirely at a different time and place than the shots surrounding it, months later in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1477 "2021-11-08T18:25:25Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > > [@enipla](#): > > > > But for a dummy round, why have a primer in it AT ALL. > > The primer helps to absorb the shock of the firing pin when dry firing. Extensive dry firing without a primer can damage the firing pin and hammer. Primers might also benefit realism if there are “point of view” shots of the gun being loaded. Whether these marginal benefits are worth of the marginal risk of using inert or spent primers rather than eliminating the primer altogether is a judgment call. The dangers of dry firing are overblown and tend to be conventional wisdom passed down through word of mouth. You can dry fire all day long with most firearms with no difficulty. And I’ve done it in training. The types of Colts being used in this movie are specifically the types of guns where dry firing can damage the pin and hammer. I have no idea if those problems are fixed in the modern replicas. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1478 "2021-11-08T18:47:09Z")
Good cites. I notice a distinct lack of bowlers. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1479 "2021-11-08T18:53:30Z")
If they actually made T-shirts mocking their employees then I would be inclined to believe the employee’s version of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1480 "2021-11-08T18:53:31Z")
I have no issues at all with having realistic guns that can only shoot blanks on the set, etc. I can’t really see any good reason to have a real live gun used, however. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1481 "2021-11-08T19:04:00Z")
Yes, this seems egregiously hostile (just a joke, yuk, yuk) and would seem to speak to the attitude toward the less powerful workers on the production. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1482 "2021-11-08T21:37:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The types of Colts being used in this movie are specifically the types of guns where dry firing can damage the pin and hammer. Yeah, I was wondering about that a little. I’ve been told to never dry fire a gun, and mostly adhere to that. Kinda makes me wonder though… If the firing pin is actually on the hammer, and it falls on nothing (no primer), how does that damage the hammer or firing pin? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1483 "2021-11-08T23:26:06Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yeah, I was wondering about that a little. I’ve been told to never dry fire a gun, and mostly adhere to that. Kinda makes me wonder though… If the firing pin is actually on the hammer, and it falls on nothing (no primer), how does that damage the hammer or firing pin? It’s a rim-fire issue. If there isn’t a bullet to absorb the impact of the firing pin then it can damage the gun with the firing hammer hitting the breech. [Here’s a video showing the damage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqUZwIf0J2k). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1484 "2021-11-08T23:32:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s a rim-fire issue. If there isn’t a bullet to absorb the impact of the firing pin then it can damage the gun with the firing hammer hitting the breech. [Here’s a video showing the damage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqUZwIf0J2k). Of course. Should have thought of that. I have a number of .22s growing up and was always told to not dry fire it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1485 "2021-11-08T23:55:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@enipla](#): > > > > Yeah, I was wondering about that a little. I’ve been told to never dry fire a gun, and mostly adhere to that. Kinda makes me wonder though… If the firing pin is actually on the hammer, and it falls on nothing (no primer), how does that damage the hammer or firing pin? > > It’s a rim-fire issue. If there isn’t a bullet to absorb the impact of the firing pin then it can damage the gun with the firing hammer hitting the breech. [Here’s a video showing the damage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqUZwIf0J2k). The Colt Single Action Army is not rim fire. The way it’s designed can lead to damage to the firing pin by dry firing. Modern center fire guns do not have the same issue. You can dry fire them all day long without a problem. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1486 "2021-11-09T00:18:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The Colt Single Action Army is not rim fire. The way it’s designed can lead to damage to the firing pin by dry firing. Know it’s not a rim fire. But surprised that the CSAA firing pin on the hammer can be damaged by dry firing it. Can you explain it? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1487 "2021-11-09T00:47:15Z")
I don’t own one. I can only go by what I read. The original SAA does not have a transfer bar. That means the firing pin is on the hammer and slams into the frame with each shot. The original firing pins were dense but brittle. Later model reproductions might fix that problem I don’t know. This video shows the action pretty well. He first shows a SAA, then a 1911 and then a Colt Python. The difference between the Python and the SAA is the most important. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/I8NSDCNTRaQ/maxresdefault.jpg "How Hammer Fired Actions Work In Firearms") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8NSDCNTRaQ) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1488 "2021-11-09T03:49:05Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Know it’s not a rim fire. But surprised that the CSAA firing pin on the hammer can be damaged by dry firing it. Can you explain it? For a firing pin to be damaged it would have to travel past the normal strike zone arcing downward into the breech. Not sure if you call a cylinder a breech but you get the idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=75)