# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1489 "2021-11-09T04:02:27Z")
Does it really matter if the firing pin of a prop gun is damaged? ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1490 "2021-11-09T04:05:58Z")
Yes. If you still want to use it to set off the primer in blanks. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1491 "2021-11-09T14:08:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > For a firing pin to be damaged it would have to travel past the normal strike zone arcing downward into the breech. Not sure if you call a cylinder a breech but you get the idea. Uhhh. But if there is a cartridge in the cylinder without a primer in it that wouldn’t be possible. That’s what I’m trying to talk about. I don’t see how not having a primer can damage the firing pin as long as there is a cartridge in the chamber. Thanks for the link Loach. I’ll look at it when I have time ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1492 "2021-11-09T22:51:17Z")
[Alec Baldwin tweeted](https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-productions-using-guns-should-have-cop-on-set-2021-11) “Every film/TV set that uses guns, fake or otherwise, should have a police officer on set, hired by the production, to specifically monitor weapons safety,” ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1493 "2021-11-09T22:54:23Z")
I don’t think he thought that one through. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1494 "2021-11-09T22:56:09Z")
Right. Because police officers would never make a mistake with a firearm. I’ll bet all those trained armorers out there are happy with that statement. Almost all of them have far more weapons training than your average pooice officer. Hell, I’ll bet Gutierrez has more safety training than most cops do. Your average armorer is ex-military or ex-police as it is. Maybe Baldwin shouldn’t assume that other armorers are as incompetent as the 24-year old legacy his production likely hired on the cheap. I could get behind more training for new armorers, or other types of checks for enforcement of safety rules of all kinds. Maybe movie productions need the equivalent of an ISO certification for on-set safety. No reason to bring cops into it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1495 "2021-11-09T23:03:41Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > I don’t think he thought that one through. It was reported that he shut down or restricted his tweet account after that. I’m guessing he got the message. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1496 "2021-11-10T13:40:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Alec Baldwin tweeted](https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-productions-using-guns-should-have-cop-on-set-2021-11) “Every film/TV set that uses guns, fake or otherwise, should have a police officer on set, hired by the production, to specifically monitor weapons safety,” Or you can just make sure the people who already have that job are properly trained and actually doing the job. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1497 "2021-11-10T14:14:54Z")
Yeah seems Alec was just reaching into thin air for something, anything, to propose. I mean, I get it, you want someone who can tell the AD/producer “I’ll shut _you_ down if I see you doing it wrong” whom they can’t fire, but that was not thought through. ( I’m not surprised if he were under the misimpression that every LEA or soldier is a qualified RSO/weaponsmaster, given how often you find people trying to go into the “tactical training” business under that credential) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1498 "2021-11-10T14:21:23Z")
I think a trained safety officer representing the insurance carrier would be more effective than a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1499 "2021-11-10T17:10:43Z")
Hmmm. Can’t read too much into this but it’s an interesting development. > **[DA probing ‘Rust’ shooting knows who loaded gun](https://nypost.com/2021/11/10/da-probing-rust-shooting-knows-who-loaded-gun/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter)** > > Mary Carmack-Altwies declined to name the person in an interview with ABC’s Good Morning America as she weighs whether to bring criminal charges over the fatal shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1500 "2021-11-10T19:19:12Z")
in theory you could put live rounds in the same box of shells which are lined up primer end up. [That’s how you normally see them and pull them from a box](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pantherwholesale.com%2Fproducts%2F50-9mm&psig=AOvVaw22gVTBrYOV5dgKTApilRrs&ust=1636658405438000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjRxqFwoTCLCele3BjvQCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD). Then, looking straight on you would see similar shell casings from the back and load them into the gun without actually seeing the front of the shell. Hypothetically easy mistake in a hurry because you assume a box of shells are all the same. Now you’re in Columbo territory. If you’re doing it right you would pull the shells from the box and line them up on a table with the primer end down so you can see the business end of it. The CCW training course actually warned about the danger of mixing .380 ammunition with 9 mm. It will load in the gun just fine but take it out of battery. I use both types of guns on the range and it would be easy to dump a bunch of shells on the loading deck and put the overage back in the wrong box. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1501 "2021-11-10T19:25:05Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Hmmm. Can’t read too much into this but it’s an interesting development. > > [DA probing 'Rust' shooting knows who loaded gun](https://nypost.com/2021/11/10/da-probing-rust-shooting-knows-who-loaded-gun/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter) I think the armor has already stated that she loaded the gun from “a box of dummies” > [@Magiver](#): > > If you’re doing it right you would pull the shells from the box and line them up on a table with the primer end down so you can see the business end of it. It’s pretty well established at this point that dummy rounds were inserted in the gun so the “business end” would look the same as a live cartridge. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1502 "2021-11-10T19:32:41Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > It’s pretty well established at this point that dummy rounds were inserted in the gun so the “business end” would look the same as a live cartridge. It has not been established it was done right. which clearly it wasn’t ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1503 "2021-11-10T19:34:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It has not been established it was done right. which clearly it wasn’t… Doing it right would either be shaking each one to listen for BBs, looking for a hole drilled in the side and possibly checking the primer for a dimple. Depending on how the particular dummies were made. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1504 "2021-11-10T20:39:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The CCW training course actually warned about the danger of mixing .380 ammunition with 9 mm. It will load in the gun just fine but **take it out of battery.** I use both types of guns on the range and it would be easy to dump a bunch of shells on the loading deck and put the overage back in the wrong box. (Bolding mine.) I’m not familiar with that term. Can you define it for us non-gun types? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1505 "2021-11-10T21:03:22Z")
Means the round will load, but not fitting exactly to specifications, the chamber will not be correctly locked and sealed tight and the casing not properly supported by the chamber walls. Best good case, the gun is designed to never fire out of battery. Least bad case, the casing fails so the gun needs professional disassembly. Worst case, hot gases and metal parts moving in directions other than out the front hole at high velocity. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1506 "2021-11-10T23:13:49Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Bolding mine.) I’m not familiar with that term. Can you define it for us non-gun types? Sorry, it means it’s ready to fire. If, for example, a semi-automatic slide (the part that slides back and forth on top of the gun) was not all the way forward it would be considered out of battery because it could not fire. With most semi-automatic pistols that misfire you would bang the slide forward with your hand to see if that gets it back into firing condition (back in battery). ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1507 "2021-11-11T01:43:31Z")
Can someone give examples of movie shots where the gun is aimed such that it’s important for realism that there’s a dummy in the barrel? A gun barrel is a narrow tube so you would need it pointed dead on to the camera and the lighting to be directly behind the camera for enough light to make out a bullet. No movie clips come to mind for me. More typical are shots like [this](https://youtu.be/3lqYg7jpjfI?t=81) where the gun barrel is just a black circle and it doesn’t matter how the gun is loaded. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1508 "2021-11-11T01:47:48Z")
At any angle other than 90 degrees you can see if there are rounds in the chamber of a revolver. So…virtually every shot? Ain’t nobody but James Bond looking _down_ the barrel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=74) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=76)