# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1589 "2021-11-18T16:53:50Z")
[Errots.](https://www.google.com/search?q=malformed+carrot&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS790US790&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiSm4rhr6L0AhWnl3IEHX2xC6IQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=1057&dpr=1) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1590 "2021-11-18T17:02:26Z")
But be careful about [Ergot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot). 😬 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1591 "2021-11-18T17:23:51Z")
Errors, ergo errots. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1592 "2021-11-18T20:38:49Z")
Quod [air rat](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=air%2brat&=true) demonstrandum. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1593 "2021-11-18T21:56:24Z")
> [@susan](#): > > …air rat … “There’s nothing in the rule book that says a rat _can’t_ play basketball!” ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1594 "2021-11-18T23:15:15Z")
So you think firing a revolver loaded with blanks at the floor is a demonstration in safety? I think Clooney spoke from his narrow experience. His unfamiliarity with the term ‘cold gun’ makes me wonder about his breadth of knowledge. It’s obvious that what Baldwin did was lacking, but your posts seem intent on placing the burden of blame where it may not belong. Further, protestations about ‘safety’ from a shill for Nestle is the height of irony. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1595 "2021-11-18T23:27:33Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > So you think firing a revolver loaded with blanks at the floor is a demonstration in safety? Did anyone suggest that? The guideline is that if the gun has _dummy_ rounds that look like real bullets wiithout removing them and checking them, the armorer will tell the actor to point the gun at the ground and pull the trigger enough times to cycle all the rounds in the cylinder, to prove that the gun is inert to himself and everyone on set. That would have prevented this accident. For those still unclear, here are the definitions: “Live” round - a real cartridge with a bullet in it. Should never be anywhere near a movie set except in very specific, rare circumstances where the actor has to actually fire a live bullet. “Dummy” round - A cartridge with no powder and an expended primer, but with a real bullet. Inert, but looks like the real thing. You can tell them from ‘live’ rounds by checking that the primer is dimpled, by looking for a hole drilled in the side, or by shaking it, because an armorer is supposed to put BB’s in it instead of powder so it rattles when shaken. “Blank” round. A cartridge containing a reduced amount of powder, and instead of having a bullet at the end it is simply crimped. To prevent the powder from leaking out of the crimping it will also likely have a bit of paper wadding between the powder and the crimp. Blanks can be dangerous at close range. They can also damage hearing if shot indoors. You don’t fire blanks lightly, and certainly not at the floor, since they’d likely damage it. Dummies are just lumps of metal and lead, and completely harmless unless maybe you throw them at someone. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1596 "2021-11-18T23:32:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Did anyone suggest that? Well Clooney seemed to when he said he always does it. But maybe he’s only ever dealt with dummy rounds. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > For those still unclear, here are the definitions: Probably will only be needed a few more times in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1597 "2021-11-19T00:52:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Did anyone suggest that? The guideline is that if the gun has _dummy_ rounds that look like real bullets wiithout removing them and checking them, the armorer will tell the actor to point the gun at the ground and pull the trigger enough times to cycle all the rounds in the cylinder, to prove that the gun is inert to himself and everyone on set. That still sounds like it could be dangerous. It’s only safe to shoot the floor if the gun is actually safe. If the gun happens to have a real bullet in it, then the actor will shoot a bullet onto the floor where it may ricochet or break apart. To test if the gun had a real bullet, it seems like the gun should be shot into something which would catch a bullet if one happened to be loaded into the gun. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1598 "2021-11-19T01:09:45Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > What kind of physical trauma did she incur? > > Allred’s a feminist, but she does seem to crave the limelight. I’m not sure why she took this case. Maybe nobody else connected to the _Rust_ production wanted her, and she saw this as another chance to get her name in the news? Or maybe she figured Baldwin would settle, and she could get a million or two out of the deal? Maybe she figured Baldwin is a wealthy man and a big name actor, and if he was going to lend his prestige to this production (and no doubt be heavily compensated for it—perhaps to the point the producers decided to cut corners on mere “nice to haves” like safety), then he had an obligation to be concerned for the safety of workers, particularly in a nation where there is next to no social safety net, and as a result he—along with everyone else who stood to profit substantially from this film—ought to pay through the nose for ensuing failures, up to and including death? As to physical trauma, IANAL, but I will simply note that it’s easier to succeed with an IIED claim (particularly when the “intentional” part is perhaps more toward the “reckless” side of things and the plaintiff wasn’t the target, as it were) when the emotional distress is of such as nature as to cause physical harm (like maybe she can’t sleep, she can’t eat, she’s losing weight, her hair is falling out from the stress, etc. etc.). Anyway, let’s not feel too bad for Baldwin et al (the financial backers) getting slammed with mean-sounding lawsuits. I also continue to be unimpressed by the quality of “reporting” done by the _New York Post_. I suppose I should be grateful no one seems to be reading the _Washington Times_. And just as an oh by the way, formulaic complaints by glory-seeking attorneys aside, I think it’s fair to assume that the plaintiff here has been genuinely traumatized by this event. Unfortunately “I was traumatized by the gross incompetence of a twenty-something hired by a bunch of greedy capitalists who were only interested in the bottom line” is not a recognized cause of action in the US. Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress is likely about as close to that as a mere plebe can hope to get. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1599 "2021-11-19T01:36:16Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Allred’s a feminist, but she does seem to crave the limelight. I’m not sure why she took this case. Maybe nobody else connected to the _Rust_ production wanted her, and she saw this as another chance to get her name in the news? Or maybe she figured Baldwin would settle, and she could get a million or two out of the deal? Yeah, she’s lost a fair amount of credibility in recent years. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Allred’s role, along with that of her daughter (attorney Lisa Bloom), in allegedly suppressing the voices of alleged victims of [Harvey Weinstein](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Weinstein_sexual_abuse_allegations)[[84]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Allred#cite_note-84) was chronicled in Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey’s 2019 book _[She Said: Breaking the Sexual Harassment Story That Helped Ignite a Movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/She_Said_(book))_ . > > Allred and her assistant previously declined to represent [Jeffrey Epstein](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein) victim [Maria Farmer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Farmer), and stated she and her sister Annie “didn’t have a case”.[[85]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Allred#cite_note-85) ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1600 "2021-11-19T01:46:18Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > It’s only safe to shoot the floor if the gun is actually safe. If the gun happens to have a real bullet in it, then the actor will shoot a bullet onto the floor where it may ricochet or break apart. There hasn’t been a gun with a real bullet on a film set (that we know of) in 20 years. To reiterate something from way up earlier in the thread: > [@Shalmanese](#): > > The safety procedure of firing into the ground is there to make sure _blanks_ aren’t confused with _dummy rounds_ , for which it’s a sufficiently safe procedure. Live rounds aren’t really contemplated because they should have already been weeded out by the multiple redundant safety procedures before getting to that point. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1601 "2021-11-19T01:46:43Z")
I don’t feel bad for Baldwin that he’s had lawsuits filed against him. I was appalled at the poisonous voicemail he left his daughter some years back. Definitely not a fan. But insomnia would be considered a physical manifestation of emotional trauma, not physical trauma. My understanding is that because emotional trauma is harder to prove, plaintiffs’ attorneys look for physical manifestations to add weight to emotional trauma claims. That does not make them physical trauma. As **needscoffee** pointed out, Allred’s reputation has slipped considerably. I still think she’s counting on Baldwin settling out of court, which would keep her from having to prove physical trauma that didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1602 "2021-11-19T03:35:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The errot was intentional. Thread 🏆 ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1603 "2021-11-19T16:22:32Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I don’t feel bad for Baldwin that he’s had lawsuits filed against him. I was appalled at the poisonous voicemail he left his daughter some years back. Definitely not a fan. One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1604 "2021-11-19T16:42:13Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > There hasn’t been a gun with a real bullet on a film set (that we know of) in 20 years. _Act of Valor_, 2012, filmed sequences with live ammunition. They also used real Navy SEALs as actors, so quite unusual all around. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1605 "2021-11-20T02:41:06Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > _Act of Valor_ , 2012, filmed sequences with live ammunition. They also used real Navy SEALs as actors, so quite unusual all around. Yes but weren’t those active duty soldiers at military live-fire ranges? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1606 "2021-11-22T03:40:52Z")
The prop master shoots herself in the foot? That set was such a mess. It’s interesting that the LA Times has obtained texts from people that were involved. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/it-was-supposed-to-be-their-big-break-now-two-24-year-olds-are-at-the-center-of-the-rust-shooting-investigation/ar-AAQWgGT](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/it-was-supposed-to-be-their-big-break-now-two-24-year-olds-are-at-the-center-of-the-rust-shooting-investigation/ar-AAQWgGT) > [@](#): > > On Oct. 16, Zachry accidentally shot herself in the foot with a blank fired from a gun. She was not injured, but the gun “went off right in her hands,” according to a crew member who witnessed the incident at Bonanza Creek Ranch, 13 miles south of Santa Fe. Will Waggoner, Zachry’s lawyer, did not respond to questions about the accidental discharge. > > “Happens to everyone, move on,” Kenney texted Gutierrez Reed following the incident. > > “It sure doesn’t look good, tho,” Gutierrez Reed responded. > > The texts between the two have been viewed by The Times and authenticated by two people close to the situation who are not authorized to speak publicly. In the messages, Kenney urged Gutierrez Reed not to report Zachry’s accidental discharge to the “Rust” production office, and he suggested the armorer had slipped up too. > > “Accidents and mistakes happen,” Kenney wrote to Gutierrez Reed. “Accidental discharges are accidents. A mistake is where the Armorer provides a gun and Full Load Ammo to be fired with a horse in the vicinity. Will you tell Production about that?” > > “Don’t forget [Zachry]’s your boss. Don’t push it,” continued Kenney. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1607 "2021-11-22T08:27:29Z")
Wish I could read that article but it’s paywalled…Thanks for the quoted excerpts. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1608 "2021-11-22T09:29:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Wish I could read that article but it’s paywalled Here’s the direct link to the LA Times article: > **[It was supposed to be their big break. Now two 24-year-olds are at the center...](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-11-20/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-hannah-armorer-sarah-seth)** > > How an armorer and a prop master with scant experience wound up in the middle of the Alec Baldwin "Rust" tragedy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=81)