# Alec Baldwin \[accidentally\] Kills Crew Member with Prop Gun {2021-10-21} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960 "2021-10-22T02:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1609 "2021-11-22T13:10:03Z")
It’s paywalled, regardless which link I click on: “For subscribers only.” ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1610 "2021-11-22T13:44:02Z")
Try this: [https://outline.com/sWGUv](https://outline.com/sWGUv3) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1611 "2021-11-22T14:53:42Z")
I can’t access the article anymore. They apparently moved it after I linked. The newer link from blue infinity works. Thanks. The “accidents happen” text from weapons expert Seth Kenney bothers me. Literally shooting yourself in the foot is a pretty big failure in gun safety. Sarah Zachary is lucky it was a blank. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1612 "2021-11-22T15:02:58Z")
**blue\_infinity** ’s link worked for me. Reaffirms this was one shamblolic, ate up, craptastic operation that veteran armorers wanted nothing to do with and the producers wanted it slapped together fast and cheap. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1613 "2021-11-22T15:23:07Z")
Sounds like it. > [Zachary and Gutierrez-Reed] been hired only after a long list of other prop masters and armorers were approached for the job. Many were unavailable, while some turned it down due to concerns over safety and producers’ demand that one person juggle the duties of armorer as well as prop assistant. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Sarah Zachary is lucky it was a blank. On this set, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1614 "2021-11-22T17:09:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > “Accidents and mistakes happen,” Kenney wrote to Gutierrez Reed. “Accidental discharges are accidents. A mistake is where the Armorer provides a gun and Full Load Ammo to be fired with a horse in the vicinity. Will you tell Production about that?” Anyone who has even basic firearms training should know that there is no such thing as an “accidental discharge”. That’s not a term used by people who understand firearms safety. The correct term is “negligent discharge” because it is caused by negligence. The fact that so-called “professionals” are talking about firearms this way is a joke. If this is a legitimate exchange, it’s pretty damning. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1615 "2021-12-01T11:14:34Z")
Posted by the AP just now: > **[Investigators track ammunition in fatal film set shooting](https://apnews.com/article/alec-baldwin-entertainment-shootings-new-mexico-movies-c74fe3a11cb6211d603cc059ca02cabd)** > > SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — Authorities pursued new leads Tuesday on possible sources of live ammunition involved in actor Alec Baldwin's fatal shooting of a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of a western movie, as they searched the premises of an... ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1616 "2021-12-01T11:58:48Z")
Here’s a copy of the latest search warrant: > **[Search-Warrant-4\_Movie-Set\_Baldwin-Shooting-Incident.pdf](https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Search-Warrant-4_Movie-Set_Baldwin-Shooting-Incident.pdf)** > > 677.48 KB ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1617 "2021-12-01T12:07:48Z")
It seems to me that even if there were live rounds mixed in with a box of dummies supplied to the set, it was still the responsibility of the armorer to check each round (by shaking it to see if it rattled) before loading it into the gun. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1618 "2021-12-01T15:28:21Z")
For anyone interested: > **[Alec Baldwin to discuss 'Rust' shooting in 'raw,' 'very candid' TV interview](https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-first-tv-interview-rust-shooting)** > > Stephanopoulos said he and Baldwin spoke for over an hour and called the conversation “intense,” “raw” and “very candid.” ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1619 "2021-12-01T15:53:03Z")
I think it is a testament to the safety procedures that are in place that it took a truly impressive chain of fuck ups for this tragedy to happen. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1620 "2021-12-01T22:10:56Z")
George Stephanopoulos interviewed Baldwin about the accident. Baldwin claims he didn’t pull the trigger. The hammer on old Revolvers rests directly on the primer in the cartridge. Dropping the weapon can jar the hammer and make it go off. It’s a well known danger when a gun is dropped. Gun manufacturers sell upgrades, a transfer bar or hammer block that makes a old revolver safer. Ruger offers one for my dad’s single six. A transfer bar isn’t 100% effective. I never carry that Ruger with a round under the hammer. It is possible the trigger on Baldwin’s revolver was defective. The slightest pressure could be enough to fire. > **[Alec Baldwin exclusive: 'The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger'](https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/alec-baldwin-exclusive-trigger-pulled-pull-trigger/story?id=81491305)** > > George Stephanopoulos' exclusive interview airs Thursday on ABC, streams on Hulu ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1621 "2021-12-01T22:14:31Z")
The articles also mention he was practicing a quickdraw. I wonder if the Colt .45 revolver they mention was a single-action revolver (you manually cock the hammer, then pull the trigger) and not a double-action revolver (you pull the trigger, which cocks the hammer _and_ releases it). A lot of quickdraw moves in Westerns involve fanning the hammer back with the other hand as you draw and aim. If you don’t get the hammer all the way to the position where it catches, I think it can fall back on the primer and fire the bullet. Or you can hold the trigger in the pulled position and fan the hammer multiple times to fire several shots without repeatedly pulling the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1622 "2021-12-03T01:54:56Z")
I’m watching the Baldwin interview. He appears very sincere and compassionate. He insists he never pulled the trigger. But he did draw back the hammer. They were confirming that the hammer movement showed clearly on camera. Baldwin said he let the hammer drop. IMHO It may have only been a 1/8 inch. He didn’t fully cock it. That would still be enough to fire a vintage single action. That’s how fanning works. You’re just barely drawing the hammer back. Too much and it gets stuck in the cock position. I’ve never fanned a gun. It’s too reckless. I’ve been told a flash flame could ignite the other rounds in the cylinder. That could ruin your day very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1623 "2021-12-03T01:56:12Z")
It was likely a period piece single action Colt. At best he’s trying to blame the gun. It would probably be in his best interest to refrain from making public statements. Not from a legal standpoint, just overall. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1624 "2021-12-03T02:06:34Z")
Baldwin made a good point that the investigation _must determine_ who brought live ammo onto the set. That’s who is directly responsible for the tragedy. The prop master and armorer should have checked the ammo and found the live round. They certainly have some negligence. But the real culprit is the idiot that brought live ammo. Was it intentional and meant to shut down the set? Or was it just being incredibly stupid? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1625 "2021-12-03T02:17:27Z")
After reading the article in Snowboarder\_Bo’s post (1541), I have questions for the gun-savvy: > The search took place after a provider of firearms and ammunition to the ill fated movie production for “Rust” told investigators that he “may know” where live rounds came from, describing ammunition he received from a friend in the past that had been “reloaded” by assembly from parts. Assembly from parts? Does this mean they turned dummy rounds or blanks into live ammo? Why would someone do this–to save money??? > Investigators say that the armorer on the film, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, loaded the gun with five dummy rounds on Oct. 21, but struggled to add a sixth round before a lunch break, when the revolver was locked in a truck. The final round was added after lunch when the gun was cleaned. Why would it be a struggle to add a sixth round? Does that indicate a really filthy gun? I keep thinking of comedian Phyllis Diller’s line that she didn’t clean her oven until “I could only bake one cupcake at a time.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1626 "2021-12-03T02:35:18Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Assembly from parts? Does this mean they turned dummy rounds or blanks into live ammo? Why would someone do this–to save money??? I read it to mean a “re-load” - when they take the spent shell and fill it back up with gunpowder and bullet. If I understand correctly, the main difference between a blank and a live bullet is the projectile - the black had the powder and the shell, but no bullet. A dummy round doesn’t have the powder that goes “BANG”. All could be make from a spent shell recycled into one of the above. I think the suggestion is that out of a batch of recycled shells intended to be dummy rounds, or blanks, a live bullet reload wound up in the box. Is that what actually happened? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1627 "2021-12-03T02:42:28Z")
Reloads can be hard to chamber if they’re not carefully sized. I’ve never reloaded my ammo. It’s a acquired skill that must be done right. A lot of bad things can happen with sloppy reloads. > [@](#): > > The reloading process starts with used brass that has been cleaned. The brass expanded when the cartridge was fired due to the immense pressure pushing the brass against the chamber wall. Sizing the brass reduces the outer diamter of the brass down to the proper dimension. This will ensure that rounds will properly chamber, and that bullets will have the proper press fit (called neck tension) when seated. [https://ultimatereloader.com/reloading-101/pistol-reloading-basics/](https://ultimatereloader.com/reloading-101/pistol-reloading-basics/) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960/1628 "2021-12-03T02:43:50Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Assembly from parts? Does this mean they turned dummy rounds or blanks into live ammo? Why would someone do this–to save money??? ‘Assembled from parts’ is just a lousy way to describe reloading, which is a very common practice. You basically take a used cartridge, tap the used primer out, put in a fresh one, fill the cartridge with as much powder as needed, put a new bullet on top and press it all together in a press. It’s done for many reasons. For most people, it’s to save money. Reloading is significantly cheaper than buying new ammo. For competition shooters, they reload so they can precisely control all the factors that go into accuracy, such as the precise amount of powder in use and exact bullet weight and shape. For armorers on movie sets, they often reload their own blanks so they can use the absolute minimum amount of powder needed to get the desired effect. A blank is just a regular cartridge and primer, but instead of putting a bullet on top of it the ends of the cartridge are crimped to keep the powder and wadding in. There is no bullet, but within a couple of feet a blank can be lethal, and from a larger distance can still inflict burns and damage to lenses and such, and cause hearing damage. That’s why armorers put as little powder in as necessary. The gun Baldwin was using was an Italian reproduction of the Colt Single Action Army. Baldwin was practicing a ‘fast cross-draw’, which would require thumbing the hammer while drawing. it would also require sweeping the barrel across the room as he brings it into line. I don’t think he could accidentally drop the hammer without his finger on the trigger, though. The Colt has two positions for thr hammer - fully cocked or half-cocked, which is used to release the cylinder for loading. If he pulled the hammer back and let go, it would either lock in the firing position or in the half-cocked position. More likely, he put his finger on the trigger while drawing the gun without realizing it, so when he thumbed the hammer and let go, the gun went off as it should. I think we are focusing way too much on Baldwin - probably because he’s a celebrity and also because people have strong feelings about him. He’s simply the last person in a chain of errors, and the only one who isn’t supposed to be a gun safety professional. I feel bad for him, even though I think he’s probably a pretty terrible person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-crew-member-with-prop-gun-2021-10-21/952960.md?page=82)