Are these certain guns? I clean my pistol often (at least as long as I’m shooting it) but it’s not like if I fire it, it won’t work again unless I clean it. Or misfire or anything.
An old Western-style revolver, maybe, but I don’t have much experience with them, I have a modern automatic pistol.
That’s a very good question. And, if the gun had been cleaned, a check would only have been to see if it had a blank or a dummy round. A real bullet (live round) look exactly like a dummy round, at least, to a superficial inspection, which is all that would be required unless one had reason to believe that a real bullet was likely.
Yes, but an armorer would know that cleaning the weapons after firing blanks is necessary (particularly black powder blanks). Now, you are correct, if you fire smokeless powder rounds, the need for cleaning is not as great, but anyone picking up the weapon will know that is had been recently fired. The only way to prevent that is to clean it.
It’s not that it won’t work, but if you lend your pistol to someone and they fire it and don’t clean it afterwards, when they give it back they say they didn’t shoot it, you would know that something didn’t add up, right?
A superficial inspection isn’t good enough. An armorer worth his or her salt knows all guns are to be treated as if loaded. If she was doing her job, she would have removed all rounds from the gun for a hands-on inspection and reloaded it with the appropriate ammo that is called for in the scene. It is her job to be damn sure and not just pretty sure.
Sure, it will be very dirty and if it was fired any time recently you can smell that it has been fired, it’s very potent. I get what you’re saying.
But what if the armorer herself was one of the people shooting the guns recreationally after hours?
NB: We still don’t know the facts, only gossip.
Multiple sources directly connected to the ‘Rust’ production tell TMZ … the same gun Alec Baldwin accidentally fired – hitting the DP and director – was being used by crews members off set as well, for what we’re told amounted to target practice.
FULL TEXT of the second affidavit:
So these these are the official facts known so far:
INVESTIGATION CONDUCTED:
On Thursday, October 21, 2021, Santa Fe County Sheriffs Office deputies were dispatched to 545 Bonanza Creek Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico, in reference to an incident regarding a “Gunshot Trauma,” Santa Fe Regional Emergency Communications Center (SFRECC), advised a male was accidentally shot by a prop gun and it was unlmown if it had been a live round used.
Upon arrival, Deputy Nicholas LeFleur, advised one female had been shot in the chest and one male was shot in shoulder area. The female was identified as Cinematographer (Halayna Hutchins) and she was transported via helicopter to the University of New Mexico Hospital (UNMH), located in Albuquerque, New Mexico, for further medical care. The male identified as Joel Souza (Director), who sustained a gunshot wound to the shoulder, was transported via ambulance to Christus St. Vincent Hospital, located in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Upon arrival, Affiant learned, the location of the incident was inside of a structure located at 545 Bonanza Creek Road and the OPS location being N35.32.35, WI06.5.52. Affiant learned the firearm used during the incident was secured by arriving deputies along with the ammunition.
During the filming of the movie, the Assistant Director (Dave Halls,) grabbed one of three “prop-guns” that was set-up by the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez), which was on a cart. The cart is a gray in color rolling table with two layers and was left outside of the structure due to COVID19 restrictions. Affiant learned one of the prop-guns was then grabbed by the Assistant Director (Dave Halls) and he took it to the actor identified as Alec Baldwin who was inside of the structure. As the Assistant Director (Dave Halls) handed the gun to the Actor Alec Baldwin, (Dave Halls) yelled, “Cold Gun,” indicating the prop-gun did not have any live rounds. The prop-gun was fired by the Actor Alec Baldwin, striking the Cinematographer identified as (Halayna Hutchins) and Joel Souza (Director) who was behind the Cinematographer (Halayna Hutchins).
Affiant later learned, the Assistant Director (Dave Halls) did not know live rounds were in the prop-gun, when he had given to the prop gun to the Actor Alec Baldwin.
Affiant learned what had happened to the prop-gun once it was fired. The prop-gun was handled by the Armorer identified as (Hannah Gutierrez) and given to the Assistant Director (Dave Halls). The Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez) was given the prop gun after it was fired by Actor Alec Baldwin, she then took the spent casing out of the prop-gun. When deputies arrived on scene, the prop-gun was handed to arriving deputies by Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez).
Affiant learned the Actor Alec Baldwin was wearing Old Western style clothing during the filming of the movie. Given the fact the Actor Alec Baldwin was wearing Old Western style clothing during the filming, he changed into “street clothes” prior to leaving the scene and the items were turned over to the Santa Fe County Sheriffs Office evidence Technician, these clothes appear to have blood stains. Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office Evidence Technician learned a western style coat was left inside of the structure. It is important to gather any trace evidence, residue or biological specimens that might be related to the incident. Affiant learned the incident occurred in close proximity which can lead to transfer of evidence.
Affiant was informed the prop-gun was properly secured in a marked patrol unit along with other prop-ammunition. The grey in color two tier cart, contained a western style belt and additional prop-ammunition which was secured by responding deputies.
The Cinematographer (Halayna Hutchins), who sustained a gunshot wound to the chest area, was later pronounced deceased at UNMH.
On Friday, October 22, 2021, at approximately 1:00 p.m., I made contact with Joel Souza (Director/Writer) whom sustained a gunshot wound to the right shoulder. Upon making contact I did observe a visible injury to his right shoulder. Joel was given the opportunity to give a statement regarding the incident that occurred at 545 Bonanza Creek Filming Ranch in Santa Fe, New Mexico on Thursday, October 21, 2021.
Joel stated that the work day started at approximately 6:30 a.m. He went on to say that the crew usually meets and has breakfast on the property. During the morning hours, the day started off late due to a camera crew that had quit and they had to find another camera crew to help film the movie.
Joel said once they hired another camera crew to assist, the day was taking longer than usual because they only had one camera to do the filming. Joel was asked about the employees’ behavior, and he said everyone was getting along there were no altercations that took place to his knowledge.
Joel stated that because of his job, he was more concentrated on the monitors of the cameras and screens. He did state that no film was being recorded because the crew was working on getting the scene ready for the movie and how they were going to set up the one camera that was available to them.
Joel said he was standing beside (Cinematographer) Halayna Hutchins viewing the camera angle on camera lens. The rehearsal took place inside the church building where Actor Alec Baldwin was sitting on a wooden pew facing south towards the camera and crew. Joel said the rehearsal entailed Actor Alec Baldwin cross drawing his weapon and pointing the revolver towards the camera lens. According to Joel it was his belief the gun being used in the rehearsal was safe and used the term “cold gun” when explaining the firearm safety announcements. He said he remembered the phrase “Cold Gun” being said, while preparing for the scene.
Joel explained what he knows about the firearm safety. He said what he knows is three people had been handling the guns or firearms for the scenes. He said the firearms are checked by Hanna who is the Armorer, and then the firearm is checked by the Assistant Director Dave Halls, who then gives it to the Actor using the firearm. Joel said as far as he knows, no one gets checked for live annnunition on their person prior and after the scenes are being filmed. The only thing checked are the firearms to avoid live ammunition being in them. Joel Stated there should never be live rounds whatsoever, near or around the scene.
Joel explained that prior to the discharge of the firearm by Actor Alec Baldwin, they had been working on preparing for the scene before lunch. Joel said they broke for lunch around 12:30 p.m. and had to be shuttled to an area away from the set to have breakfast, lunch and dinner. Joel advised they returned back to the set after lunch, although he is not sure if the firearm was checked again. Joel stated they had Alec sitting in a pew in a church building setting, and he was practicing a cross draw. Joel said he was looking over the shoulder of Halayna, when he heard what sounded like a whip and then loud pop.
Joel then vaguely remembers Halayna complaining about her stomach and grabbing her midsection. Joel also said Halayna began to stumble backwards and she was assisted to the ground. Joel explained that he was bleeding from his shoulder and he could see blood on Halayna.
Once I completed my interview with Joel, I made contact with Reid Russel who is identified as a (camera-man) who was standing next to Joel and Halayna at the time of incident.
While speaking to Reid he stated he arrived early to eat breakfast on the day of incident. Reid told me he had much work to complete due to a camera crew of about six individuals walking out of the film. Reid stated the camera crew was having issues with production involving payment and housing. Reid also said that the camera crew that walked out on the film wrote a letter to production on disagreements.
Reid said while he was working with the camera in the setting for the movie, he had stepped out for about 5 minutes after returning from lunch. He said when he had returned back into the setting for the scene, Alec, Joel, and Halayna were already in possession of the firearm and had been preparing for the scene. He was not sure if the firearm had been checked due to his absence of the five minutes.
Reid went on to say, that while setting up his camera, there was no video or audio being filmed as it was just preparation of the scene and setting. Reid said while preparing, there was a shadow coming from the outside light and they had to move the camera at a different angle from Alec. He said Alec was trying to explain how he was going to draw out the firearm and where his arm would be at when the firearm was pulled from the holster.
Reid was not sure why the firearm was discharged and just remembered the loud bang from the firearm.
Reid said after the firearm was discharged, he remembered Joel having blood on his person, and Hayalna speaking and saying she couldn’t feel her legs. Reid stated once Hayalana was on the ground, medics began to treat her injury as she was bleeding while on the floor of the building they were in.
Reid was asked about the behavior of the people involved in the setting of the scene. He said everyone seemed to be getting along.
He was asked about Alec and the firearm and how he handled the firearm. Reid said Alec had been very careful, and brought up an instance when a scene was being filmed earlier. Reid said Alec had made sure it was safe and that a child wasn’t near him when they were discharging a firearm during that scene.
On October 22, 2021, Detectives executed a search warrant at 545 Bonanza Creek Road, in Santa Fe County, New Mexico. During the execution of that warrant, they did find blood in the area where the incident took place. The incident where a firearm was discharged and two people were wounded and bleeding. The findings in the warrant corroborate statements about the injuries and the incident that took place.
Affiant is aware additional evidence might be located on the prop-gun used while the filming of the movie. Additional review will be required of the film captured during the scene as well as cameras, digital cameras, and film or memory cards used by cameras. Affiant learned a rehearsal was talking place and equipment for filming was at the scene. Due to filming equipment being at the scene, Affiant would like to confirm if the incident that took place was or wasn’t recorded.
Based on the aforementioned information and investigation, Affiant believes there are sufficient grounds sought for the issuance of a Search Warrant for the aforementioned structure, 545 Bonanza Creek, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87508 (GPS Location N35.32.35, W106.5.52.).
Affiant has not included every fact related to this investigation, but has included only those facts, Affiant believes are necessary to establish probable cause, for the issuance of a Search Warrant.
Affiant is aware through training and experience that before, during and/or after the commission crime(s) there is often transfer of evidence between suspect(s), victim(s), witness(es) and/or their environment. This evidence may not be visible to the naked eye.
Affiant is aware people involved in the commission of crime(s) often attempt to conceal, tamper with and/or dispose of evidence, including but not limited to the herein-described item(s), to be seized.
At this time it is unknown if any weapons are within the structure.
Affiant, respectfully requests the issuance of a search warrant regarding the aforementioned location. It is important to document the condition and/or location of items found at the scene and/or their context within the scene. Based on the foregoing information believes there is probable cause that items of evidentiary value may me identified within the home, which could corroborate or refute the statements that have been provided at this time.
Name of Affiant: Det. Joel Cano Santa Fe County Sheriffs Office
Subscribed and sworn to or declared and affirmed to before me in the above named county of the State of New Mexico this 22nd day of October, 2021.
I don’t know why you are assuming the guns are kept spotless. I don’t understand your insistence.
Plus, it’s not a matter of whether the armorer was able to detect the smell of the gun having been fired, but whether the actor or AD handling it would have. And even if they can/do, that goes precisely to one of @Loach’s many salient points that it’s just possible that the sort of person who would (allegedly) allow a prop gun to be used at night for target shooting might not rigorously clean it after each use, even after each allowed use for firing blanks, and so even those who can detect and recognize the smell of a gun that’s been fired may not find that out of the ordinary. Because they probably care even less about whether or not the armorer is cleaning it. All they care about is whether it has live ammo in it.
Even if, say, the US banned all firearms on set and insisted on inert props and CGI that wouldn’t stop productions in a different part of the world from allowing them, and lots of productions film outside places with tight regulations - sometimes because the regulations are looser.
For sure, a lot of actual safety starts with the attitude of the humans involved. If the people involved are serious about safety then you don’t need a lot of regulation because they’ll be following safe practices voluntarily. If the people are lax in their approach to safety then all the rules in the world won’t prevent them cutting corners, taking risks, and eventually having a tragic accident.
In something involving as many people as a movie or TV program it’s inevitable that some will be more serious about safety than others. Hence the need for rules.
I’m not sure “allowed” is the correct word here. It’s more likely “taken without permission” applies.
… um… there was an actual bullet in the prop gun?
Seems to me that if standard industry protocols were followed this should have been caught before the actor was handed the gun.
@Czarcasm is probably referring to Don Trump Jr’s new tee-shirt being peddled, among other things, which is very much a cheap attack by a Republican, even if said person is not a member of this forum. Absolutely there are Republicans taking “crapping” on Baldwin out in the world.
If she “allowed” it yes, she screwed up. If someone took it without asking then that person is at fault… although then there’s the question of how secured the guns were. If they were under lock-and-key or in a safe requiring a combination that’s usually considered secure, but if another party obtains the means to access the secure storage when they shouldn’t then the onus is, again, on the other party and not the armorer doing what they should.
That is my understanding of proper procedures.
Damn if I know. Habit in handling guns? Trying to see into the gun to see what happened? Checking to see if there any other bullets in it?
I’ve never actually cleaned a revolver. Those who have - is it possible to clean one and miss a bullet?
If so, the gun might have been cleaned but the live round somehow missed. Maybe if the person was cleaning it in a rush because they were worried about being found out before they got it back where it belonged?
All of which, I hasten to add, is speculation on my part and should in no way be treated as an established fact, because it isn’t.
Yeah.
Unfortunately I know people who buy guns who know jackshit about them.
Yeah, there’s that “Fourth of July” smell about a gun that’s been fired. Among other things.
It’s a lie.
I saw that click-bait headline too. It was on the same website as another Rust/Baldwin link. I forget the name of it.
So bad bad bad. I saw that and knew they were full of shit even before I read it. DPs aren’t in dangerous situations much more than a director or script supervisor is.
It’s the camera operators and assistants in the risky positions, and I don’t think DPs operate cameras very often. Even on this film where a bunch of camera peeps had walked out there STILL was a replacement camera operator.
The list of deaths in the article had like15 or 20 names and only two were DPs (who died in plane or other crashes) the rest were all operators or assistants.
So much bullshit all over the media and then non-suspecting Dopers bring the false info in here. Not the Doper’s fault usually cuz they’re just reporting what was reported.
This thread has been nuts with so many guesses, suppositions and made-up crap. It’s very eye opening to see both the horribly inaccurate media AND a group of really bright folks repeatedly taken in by it.
Us ‘smartest and hippest’ are only about 2 or 3 steps ahead of the knuckle-dragging, CT believing, Fox News watching, anti-vaxxers. Everyone’s getting fooled.
Some because they’re idiots and others because they are no longer rigorous about facts and details. Don’t let the internet turn you into a lazy, gullible, mush-brain.
You are absolutely right. First of all, it should have been camera operator and second I still can’t believe stunt person is not more dangerous. I apologize. I should have read more carefully.
Not a fan of Baldwin personally or politically, but I do respect his acting ability.
Having said that, this sounds like a tragic accident, a propmaster/weapon wrangler dropped the ball and Baldwin was just doing actor stuff, under (literally) Direction, unaware he had a live gun in his hand, and is probably (is, by all accounts) emotionally devastated by this. He (as well as his unintended victims, and their families) truly does have my sympathies, which is not easy for me to say.
I don’t know why you are trying to put words in my mouth. I find it rather bizarre. I never claimed the guns were kept “spotless” or in “showroom quality.” Those are your words and I guess you have a reason for accusing me of using them, but I’ll be damned if i know what it is.
Pretty much a non-sequitur but I noticed this from the article that printed the affadavit:
Her first name was misspelled as Hayalana throughout the document.
Russell (whose name was spelled “Russel” in the affidavit)
Though it does show the mismatch of the legal teams involved, if they do decide they want to prosecute Alec Baldwin, the people his legal team get to write affidavits aren’t going to spell people’s names wrong.
Apologies if it’s already been covered in this fast-moving thread, but do we know if police have interviewed Halls and Gutierrez? Or have they already lawyered up?
This is a silly criticism.
Have you ever prepared an affidavit on a tight timeline, to get a search warrant from a judge, to be able to gather evidence before it is possibly dispersed? And relying on notes that you, or maybe a different officer, took quickly, from initial interviews with witnesses, who themselves may not know exactly how to spell the names of the people they were working with? and who are distraught over the death of a colleague?
The only point is: did those misspellings in any way mislead the judge in the facts? No.
That’s how police work goes. Criticising them as if they should have been up to the standards of a law firm that has plenty of time and documentary evidence is simply not fair.
Actually it was misspelled Halayna, so the journalist at Deadline misspelled the misspelling. Oh, the irony! 
Still, I hope that the sheriff’s department has realized by now that every little thing they do in this case is going to be examined under a microscope. Santa Fe is a city of only about 80,000 so the sheriff’s department can’t be very large.
I get the sense those guns were taken out every night for target practice and always smelled like they’d been fired recently.