# Alessan you syphilus infected rabid cow turd **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609 "2010-02-19T09:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/121 "2010-02-22T19:16:52Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > …a deal which would have given them roughly 97% of the land they wanted and which Arafat responded to by organizing, planning and launching the second Intifiada? Did that deal include removing 97% of the Israeli settlers from the West Bank? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/122 "2010-02-22T19:19:01Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Did that deal include removing 97% of the Israeli settlers from the West Bank? So you’re pretty much just going to merrily sail past the fact that the vast majority of land that the Palestinians claim was never theirs in the first place but you will focus on irrelevancies even though 97% of the land that the Palestinians did want would’ve been given to them. Roger. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/123 "2010-02-22T19:42:39Z")
From [Why do The Nations hate Israel?](http://www.churchisraelforum.com/why_do_the_nations_hate_israel.htm) > [@](#): > > THE NATIONS WILL COME FOR ISRAEL > > ``` > There is one thing for sure and certain. Before this evil age plays out, all the nations of the world will come together in one "final solution" to solve the Israel "problem." After all, how can we doubt that the nations, who have persecuted Israel for four thousand years, will not follow her home. We could say that the devil will draw them, and in one sense that is true. The Bible tells us that deceiving spirits will come out of the Middle East and lure all nations into this dreadful war against Israel (Rev. 16:14). The actual truth is that God will do the drawing. In Joel 3:2 God says: "I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land." > > This great battle is the last one for this age, and will in fact end the age. The battle will largely be fought in the beautiful Jezreel Valley near an ancient hill called har Meggido (Mount Meggido). We know it as Armageddon (Rev. 16:16). It is such a strategic spot for the nations to gather and attempt to cut Israel in two. They will probably have easy access at nearby Haifa Port. This invasion will also entail a bloodbath in Jerusalem as we are told. It sounds like an Islamic Jihad with the city being captured. Half of it will go into captivity and the women will be raped (Zech. 14:2). > > Precisely at the moment, when it looks like all is lost, something truly incredible will happen. The Messiah of Israel will suddenly appear on the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:4). He will be accompanied by the shining armies of heaven. Immediately, he will destroy the Antichrist and all his myriad forces. He will do so with the brightness of his coming and with the word of his mouth (2 Thess. 2:8). The birds of the air will then gather for a great banquet on the flesh of generals and mighty men. > > Yes, that is the way it will end, and it sounds rather strange to our Christian ears. We always thought he was coming just for us Gentiles. Yet, our blessed Messiah Jesus is coming back to earth primarily to rescue Israel from the rage of the nations. > > ``` Would you like to pass comment on this little snippet **Finn Again** , while you are on a roll defending all things Jewish, or at least, Israeli? Is it really the case that a lot of Jews have got so used to defending a load of bollocks, that it has now become second nature to them? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/124 "2010-02-22T19:46:42Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Would you like to pass comment on this little snippet **Finn Again** , while you are on a roll defending all things Jewish, or at least, Israeli? > > Is it really the case that a lot of Jews have got so used to defending a load of bollocks, that it has now become second nature to them? What the hell … ? 😕 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/125 "2010-02-22T19:49:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > What the hell … ? 😕 😃 I’m sure he’ll find something to scoff at, then wax lyrical about. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/126 "2010-02-22T20:13:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s because the Israeli government has engaged in heroic efforts to protect its children, while the Palestinian leaders couldn’t care less Got one o’ dem cite thingies that says Palestinians don’t care about their children? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/127 "2010-02-22T20:14:02Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m sure he’ll find something to scoff at, then wax lyrical about. Dunno about anyone else, but I fall firmly in the “scoffing” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/128 "2010-02-22T20:29:34Z")
I am, generally speaking, a supporter of Israel. However, this Dubai debacle does have me a bit pissed off at Tel Aviv. I hold both US and Irish passports. When I travel, the only time I use the US one is when I’m returning home for a visit. Otherwise, I use the Irish one exclusively. To be honest, that’s largely because I can get through EU airports quicker with it than without. However, there is also a tiny bit of anxiety behind my reasoning, in that - in a worst-case scenario - I would much rather proffer an Irish passport than a US one to the nice gentleman waving an AK-47 around the passenger cabin. Now, allegedly due to the actions of the Israeli government, that Irish passport has become a bit less valuable as a quasi-talisman against harm. Whether the end was just (I agree that it was), the means are not, at least to me. One of the nice things about Ireland is that we’re a (now) peaceful backwater - one of those countries that just doesn’t show up anyone’s radar (excepting UK, of course). Unlike the Americans, or the British, or the French, we have no enemies. The only people who hate the Irish are the Irish. So, for dragging Ireland even partially into the spotlight of the Arab-Israeli conflict, I have to give a big old “Fuck you” to the Mossad. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/129 "2010-02-22T20:52:05Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > you are on a roll defending all things Jewish, or at least, Israeli Oooh, edgy. Guess you can’t decide if I’m an evil Jew or an evil Zionst. Ah well. Why don’t you go burglarize a house about it? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/130 "2010-02-22T21:06:58Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Your lie, if you can recall, was that Israel had somehow conducted a similar operation to bombing a kindergarten in order to get at one teacher. No, I did not. I said \*nothing \*of the sort. One cry of “a fucking kindergarten” _directed at the Apartheid regime_ had bugger-all to do with what Israel may or may not have done. It was a rhetorical aside. The meat of my argument was in _the whole list of victims_ I linked to. But of course I should have expected you to ignore that and go for the cheap comparison I didn’t even make. But anyway - as to killing kids to get at one “guilty” person : Israel has done \*exactly \*this - not once, but many times. Of course, this is always passed off as “collateral damage” or some other self-serving oxymoron. > [@](#): > > P.S. you’re also lying when you claim that South Africa was in the same situation that Israel is. That’s not what I said . What I said was that the Apartheid regime then, used the same tactics as the Israeli government does today. With as much moral justification, IMO. \*Nothing \*in this thread has countered that. The Apartheid government went into foreign countries to assassinate people it viewed as an active threat to its regime. Israel does \*exactly \*the same. Same situation. Same tactics. Prove me wrong. > [@](#): > > the other does its best to minimize them in the chaos of an enemy that wears no uniforms, uses children as soldiers and uses human shields as a matter of course. There are always excuses for why your side shoots an 8 year old girl in the head with a sniper bullet. Some of us just don’t buy them. “I’m sure she was a soldier”. “Someone was hiding behind her” “Wrong place at the wrong time”. So much bullshit. Childkillers and murderers however you slice it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/131 "2010-02-22T21:09:49Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Why don’t you go burglarize a house about it? See, now this? \*This \*is an ad hominem attack. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/132 "2010-02-22T21:36:58Z")
Mother of mercy, how fucking stupid are you Dibble? Stop using words you don’t understand just because you think they sound neat. An ad hominem fallacy is telling someone they’re wrong\* because of their personal traits\* while you ignore the actual argument (i.e. only arrogant nations do that, please don’t address whether or not it’s more moral than war or sanctions!). I’m under no obligation to respond to some sort of wacko end times theology, let alone when it’s prefaced with the oh-so-popular, and idiotic claim that I defend everything Israeli (or the slightly more filthy calumny) that I just argue because I just have to defend everything “Jewish”. So I told him to get bent. It was not an ad hominem fallacy, because I did not tell him he was wrong because he’s a burglar. That’s just an insult. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/133 "2010-02-22T21:45:03Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It was not an ad hominem fallacy, because I did not tell him he was wrong because he’s a burglar. So, you _weren’t_ belittling his argument by referencing something completely unrelated to the topic at hand? Because that’s what it looked like to me. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/134 "2010-02-22T21:49:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So, you _weren’t_ belittling his argument by referencing something completely unrelated to the topic at hand? Because that’s what it looked like to me. What “argument” was he making? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/135 "2010-02-23T06:43:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > What “argument” was he making? 😕 That \*\*Finn \*\*will defend anything that Israel does, no matter how beyond the pale. I _didn’t_ say it was a cohereent argument, and fuck knows what **ivn** ’s quote has to do with anything sane. But the non-_ad hom_ approach to that argument is to show it is specious, like by giving examples of times \*\*Finn \*\*has spoken out against Israel’s actions, or by showing that \*\*ivn \*\*is wrong in some manner. \*Not \*by referencing some _completely unrelated_ past character trait of **ivn** ’s as though it has any bearing on the matter at hand. **ivn** ’s either wrong or he isn’t (I’m \*certain \*he is wrong, BTW), but either don’t reply to him at all (I mean, that was such a _non sequitur_ of a post, no-one would blink) or else attack him directly. And yes, saying “Why don’t you burglarize a house about it” _is_ telling him he is wrong, but in an indirect fashion. **Finn** ’s saying he’s wrong, or should be dismissed, because he is of low moral character. That’s as may be, but not relevant. And that makes it _ad hominem_. Contrast this with my referring to the CIA as murdering warmongers (which are statements of fact - they have murdered and started wars, it’s well documented) - this is not an _ad hominem_ because the issue under argument by me was why I don’t trust them to report honestly on matters related to the espionage business. I could as easily have said, in a more positive statement, I’d rather trust a more independent agent like the UN or Amnesty or Red Cross over the bias of the CIA, who have a vested interest in maintaining the fear of outside agencies so they may maintain their status and funding. This would get my point across without personal insult to the CIA. But then I wouldn’t get to call them names, which I rather like to do, the murderous scumfuckers. However. Namecalling =/= _ad hominem_ when the names are matters of fact _related to the issue at hand_. Unlike, say, if they were goat fellators and scat fetishists. I have _no_ doubt most CIA employees _are_ sexual perverts, voyeurs and moral deviants who would sodomise the corpse of their own grandfather if it came wrapped in the Stars and Stripes, but I wouldn’t bring it up in this argument except for my own amusement, because it’d be a total _non sequitur_. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/136 "2010-02-23T07:09:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Again, this is an argument from _popularity_ and _influence_. > > The implication is that the unpopular and un-influential must simply lump it when targeted, which is exactly contrary to the notions of even-handedness and justice that underlie (I would have thought) the rule of law. Except that I am saying what you are doing is BOTH unpopular and against the rule of law. And I saw on the news this morning how the EU has now come out and complained about the way that Israel has behaved. Now, serious question for a moment…is this guy really such a threat to the very existence of Israel that he must be killed at all costs? Is Israel really in such a perilous position that one person can bring it down? Following on from that, to Malthus, Finn and Alessan - given what has happened, and what has come out, do you think this operation was “worth it”? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/137 "2010-02-23T10:05:41Z")
Dibble, I don’t think you’re for real on this topic. Someone slimes me with a pure ad hominem, with nonsensical bullshit connecting Christian Eschatology to some racist tripe about how Jews have a history of defending bullshit so it’s just habit to us to continue, then connecting that to the idiocy that I defend all things Jews and/or Israeli. And rather than saying “fuck off, asshole”, I’m supposed to refute that? And if I tell him to fuck off, that become an “ad hominem fallacy”? Honestly, I don’t think you’re that stupid, I think you’re just being difficult for some reason or another. You’re not even applying your own standards to yourself. Even if I was some sort of reflexive defender of all things Jewish, what effect would that have on my argument? That’s right, none, _it’s an ad hominem fallacy._ (Have you finally figured out what the phrase means?) And just like if I said “Dibble is well known for his habits of raping and murdering little children”, so don’t listen to him, you wouldn’t be obligated to defend yourself from that charge, with cites, I’m not obligated to respond to some babbling idiot spouting racist nonsense about how embracing bullshit is somehow nherent in Judaism or slimy ad hom absurdities about how I can’t think for myself and I’m only a mouthpiece of the Tribe. If you don’t understand why that noise doesn’t deserve any rebuttal more substantive than a raised middle finger, you’re either playing dumb for lulz or really far gone. I prefer to think that you’re just being an asshole. > [@bengangmo](#): > > Now, serious question for a moment…is this guy really such a threat to the very existence of Israel that he must be killed at all costs? > Is Israel really in such a perilous position that one person can bring it down? Oh, yes, I’m sure you’re being honest about that. You really don’t understand that you can have valid targets of war whose elimination will make a difference without saying that if they survive, your entire nation is doomed. Nope, you really do believe it must be one or the other and you’re not trying to score cheap rhetorical points. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/138 "2010-02-23T10:12:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Oh, yes, I’m sure you’re being honest about that. You really don’t understand that you can have valid targets of war whose elimination will make a difference without saying that if they survive, your entire nation is doomed. Nope, you really do believe it must be one or the other and you’re not trying to score cheap rhetorical points. I am trying to learn something here, I am trying to ask a genuine question, and if you could respond it would be really appreciated - it may not change my mind, but it may help me to understand a little better (or get a little angrier) But in anycase, I will ask the substantive question again. GIVEN THE FALLOUT, AND WHAT HAS NOW HAPPENED, DO YOU FEEL THIS “OPERATION” WAS WORTH IT? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/139 "2010-02-23T10:12:56Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Following on from that, to Malthus, Finn and Alessan - given what has happened, and what has come out, do you think this operation was “worth it”? I don’t know - I don’t have sufficient information. I do know that the man was a terrorist leader and organizer and that he was responsible for smuggling weapons into Gaza, and that killing him most likely saved more than a few Israeli lives. Now, do I think that saving even a single Israeli outweighes insulting a bunch of Europeans? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/140 "2010-02-23T10:22:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t know - I don’t have sufficient information. > > I do know that the man was a terrorist leader and organizer and that he was responsible for smuggling weapons into Gaza, and that killing him most likely saved more than a few Israeli lives. Now, do I think that saving even a single Israeli outweighes insulting a bunch of Europeans? Absolutely. I am also with you there - I think **any** life is worth more than “a bunch of insults” as you succinctly put it. But then, to me I always try to take the attitude with insults that I am like a duck. They just slide off my back. Now again, I am not a diplomat, so I am just trying to feel my way here - but do you think that the “insults” may have lasting consequences? That this has lowered Israel’s reputation in "Europe? Do you think having done this, it might make it harder to get co-operation, or sympathy for your cause “next time”? Do you think that some of those that were sitting on the fence, are now going to fall on the side of “don’t like Israel” and some of those that were / are active supporters are now going to be a little bit marginalised? I think it does - but I must admit to being somewhat niaeve and having a bit of a pollyanna complex, so I would like to hear your opinion on the matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609.md?page=8)