# Alessan you syphilus infected rabid cow turd **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609 "2010-02-19T09:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/141 "2010-02-23T10:33:15Z")
Finn Again, you have your face embedded so deeply in the filthy arse-crack of Israeli policy makers, you couldn’t see sense if it paraded naked along the backs of a procession of brontosauruses. ps. At least my past indiscretions don’t include supporting what would be the most ruthless government on this planet\*, if only they could get away with it without leaving forged passports at the scene of a crime. - Based entirely on their known actions and the murderous psychotic they worship, ie. God/Mammon. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/142 "2010-02-23T11:11:59Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Dibble, I don’t think you’re for real on this topic. Someone slimes me with a pure ad hominem, with nonsensical bullshit connecting Christian Eschatology to some racist tripe about how Jews have a history of defending bullshit so it’s just habit to us to continue, then connecting that to the idiocy that I defend all things Jews and/or Israeli. > And rather than saying “fuck off, asshole” “Fuck off, asshole” would have been a wholly appropriate answer. Bringing in shit from other threads, OTOH, is just sinking to his level. As to whether you were dismissing the \*substantive \*part of his argument (that you always and only defend Israel) - I \*do \*think it has relevance when it comes to you talking about what Israel does or doesn’t intend when e.g. attacking civilians. You (not some cite, _you_) say that Israel doesn’t intend collateral damage. But if you would defend Israel no matter what, then we’d need more than just your say-so, wouldn’t we? So bringing up your bias isn’t an _ad hom_ attack, IMO, but a addresses a substantive point. That’s where I’m coming from in referring to it as _ad hominem_, not sheer bloody-mindedness. For what it’s worth, I don’t think \*any \*of the pro-Israeli posters here are so blindly zealous that they overlook _all_ Israel’s mistakes or misdeeds. I understand that in these sort of bunfights, it’s a lot better to keep a clear idea of what side you’re on and a simple line of argument, and that’s not a reflection of the complete attitude of the poster as a person or their full views. So you should know I don’t agree with \*\*ivan \*\*on this. Having said that, I think you should know that I see where you’re coming from with regard to your defence of espionage. I don’t want you to think that I’m not understanding your point, as I see it. I _understand_, but I don’t _agree_. Coming, as I do, from a background of anarchism and pacifism, I don’t agree with your fundamental, unstated assumption that any abstract State is worth even one (other person’s) life to defend. Or even killing in pre-emptive self defence, for that matter. So yes, in some way, your characterization of me is close to the mark - any amount of economic hardship (not that anyone in the US goes hungry from industrial espionage) and contravention of privacy is preferable to a murder for me. > [@](#): > > Oh, yes, I’m sure you’re being honest about that. You really don’t understand that you can have valid targets of war whose elimination will make a difference without saying that if they survive, your entire nation is doomed. Nope, you really do believe it must be one or the other and you’re not trying to score cheap rhetorical points. \*Now \*you know all about Excluded Middle? Where was all this philosophical nuance yesterday, when all you could see was a dichotomy between assassination and killing innocents? I guess it’s OK if you’re the one pointing out fallacies or scoring “cheap rhetorical points”, but heaven forbid you commit any yourself, or get any scored against you. Eh, what should I expect from someone who thinks “South Africa does it too!” is the height of comeback to anything? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/143 "2010-02-23T13:53:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That \*\*Finn \*\*will defend anything that Israel does, no matter how beyond the pale. I _didn’t_ say it was a cohereent argument, and fuck knows what **ivn** ’s quote has to do with anything sane. But the non-_ad hom_ approach to that argument is to show it is specious, like by giving examples of times \*\*Finn \*\*has spoken out against Israel’s actions, or by showing that \*\*ivn \*\*is wrong in some manner. \*Not \*by referencing some _completely unrelated_ past character trait of **ivn** ’s as though it has any bearing on the matter at hand. **ivn** ’s either wrong or he isn’t (I’m \*certain \*he is wrong, BTW), but either don’t reply to him at all (I mean, that was such a _non sequitur_ of a post, no-one would blink) or else attack him directly. > > And yes, saying “Why don’t you burglarize a house about it” _is_ telling him he is wrong, but in an indirect fashion. **Finn** ’s saying he’s wrong, or should be dismissed, because he is of low moral character. That’s as may be, but not relevant. And that makes it _ad hominem_. > > Contrast this with my referring to the CIA as murdering warmongers (which are statements of fact - they have murdered and started wars, it’s well documented) - this is not an _ad hominem_ because the issue under argument by me was why I don’t trust them to report honestly on matters related to the espionage business. > > I could as easily have said, in a more positive statement, I’d rather trust a more independent agent like the UN or Amnesty or Red Cross over the bias of the CIA, who have a vested interest in maintaining the fear of outside agencies so they may maintain their status and funding. This would get my point across without personal insult to the CIA. > > But then I wouldn’t get to call them names, which I rather like to do, the murderous scumfuckers. However. Namecalling =/= _ad hominem_ when the names are matters of fact _related to the issue at hand_. Unlike, say, if they were goat fellators and scat fetishists. I have _no_ doubt most CIA employees _are_ sexual perverts, voyeurs and moral deviants who would sodomise the corpse of their own grandfather if it came wrapped in the Stars and Stripes, but I wouldn’t bring it up in this argument except for my own amusement, because it’d be a total _non sequitur_. I really didn’t see any “argument” at all, merely a quote from some sort of Christian apocalyptic site, with some sort of borderline anti-semitic screed following it. There being no argument to contradict, it follows that nothing **Finn** or anyone can say to it can really be an _ad hom_. I took **Finn’s** response to mean, basically, ‘FU’. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/144 "2010-02-23T14:00:01Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Except that I am saying what you are doing is BOTH unpopular and against the rule of law. Seems to me that the two are deeply conflated, given that “international law” in matters of peace and war tends to be set by the UN SC. > [@](#): > > And I saw on the news this morning how the EU has now come out and complained about the way that Israel has behaved. Interesting, given that it is very likely but not yet certain that it was an Israeli operation. > [@](#): > > Now, serious question for a moment…is this guy really such a threat to the very existence of Israel that he must be killed at all costs? Do I think he was an existential threat? No. Neither, I may point out, is Bin Laden, who is the cause of the US and UK entanglement in Afganistan. > [@](#): > > Is Israel really in such a perilous position that one person can bring it down? Same answer. seems to be a bit of an excluded middle here. > [@](#): > > Following on from that, to Malthus, Finn and Alessan - given what has happened, and what has come out, do you think this operation was “worth it”? I dunno. Why should that be the measure of the rightness or wrongness of the operation, anyway? If Israel deid it, and they were sufficiently sneaky to get away with it, or if nobody cared, it would not make the operation any more right or wrong than it is now. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/145 "2010-02-23T14:14:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Coming, as I do, from a background of anarchism and pacifism, I don’t agree with your fundamental, unstated assumption that any abstract State is worth even one (other person’s) life to defend. Or even killing in pre-emptive self defence, for that matter. So yes, in some way, your characterization of me is close to the mark - any amount of economic hardship (not that anyone in the US goes hungry from industrial espionage) and contravention of privacy is preferable to a murder for me. Yet you found the war in Afganistan “… a somewhat understandable response to Taliban hosting of Al Qaeda” in this thread: > **[Anti-war folks...thoughts on Afghanistan?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=552515)** > > I haven’t seen a thread on the offensive going on by NATO in southern Afghanistan, and thought I’d frame the debate in terms of how the anti-war 'dopers feel about it. Recently I’ve heard a couple of references (to paraphrase) concerning ‘Obama... To my mind, the killing of terrorists is not about defence of some abstract concept of state-hood, but about the elimination of persons who are actively dangerous to innocent civilians. They ought to be, as pirates were once considered, _hostis humani generis_, ‘the common enemy of mankind’, such that it is morally incumbent on states not to offer them encouragement or shelter. For those that do, it should be, as you put it, “somewhat understandable” that others take extraordinary measures to root them out and eliminate them. It strikes me as incomprehensible to support, or at least find “somewhat understandable”, a war (in which many innocents die and whole countries and ways of life are disrupted) as being justified by harbouring a terrorist mastermind, and yet baulk at an assassination inspired by exactly the same motive. In terms of damage done to the innocent, war surely is worse than a targeted assassination? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/146 "2010-02-23T14:29:46Z")
So, basically you want assassination to be seen as an acceptable method for sorting out governmental disputes? Now why didn’t you just say that? I’m sure flailing wildly at the head of something as nebulous as the Hamas militant wing is going to prove very productive, in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/147 "2010-02-23T14:36:49Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > So, basically you want assassination to be seen as an acceptable method for sorting out governmental disputes? Now why didn’t you just say that? I’m sure flailing wildly at the head of something as nebulous as the Hamas militant wing is going to prove very productive, in the long run. That’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying is that assassination of terrorists is an understandable response to the harbouring or toleration of said terrorists by governments. Obviously, where those governments are ready, willing and able to arrest said terrorists, that’s the method to use. Assassination is preferable to war, or to doing nothing - as far as I can see the only two alternatives where a government decides to harbour terrorists. As far as what will work in the long run, Afganistan should prove an apt laboratory for the “war” option. We’ve been at it for many years there, and Bin Laden is still at large as far as anyone knows. The other option is of course to do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/148 "2010-02-23T14:44:25Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That’s not what I’m saying at all. > > What I’m saying is that assassination of terrorists is an understandable response to the harbouring or toleration of said terrorists by governments. Obviously, where those governments are ready, willing and able to arrest said terrorists, that’s the method to use. > > Assassination is preferable to war, or to doing nothing - as far as I can see the only two alternatives where a government decides to harbour terrorists. > > As far as what will work in the long run, Afganistan should prove an apt laboratory for the “war” option. We’ve been at it for many years there, and Bin Laden is still at large as far as anyone knows. > > The other option is of course to do nothing. So, you are saying then that with the combined forces of Israel’s PR team and the intelligence and military resources of Mossad, this was the best plan they could come up with? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/149 "2010-02-23T14:54:38Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Yet you found the war in Afganistan “… a somewhat understandable response to Taliban hosting of Al Qaeda” in this thread: > > [Anti-war folks...thoughts on Afghanistan? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=552515) There’s a distinct difference between the words “understandable” and “acceptable”. I _understand_ the American response like I _understand_ **Finn** ’s acceptance of espionage as a necessary tactic of governments. That does **not** mean I _accept_ it or _agree_ with it. It’s called “empathy”. Let’s look at what words of mine that ellipsis hides: **“not at all what I would have done”**. See, the problem with selective quoting, and then linking back to the post, is that everyone else can see how you took that snippet out of context in order to score some sort of gotcha. > [@](#): > > To my mind, the killing of terrorists is not about defence of some abstract concept of state-hood, but about the elimination of persons who are actively dangerous to innocent civilians. The problem here, of course, is that they are only terrorists on your say-so. If they are not brought before a court of law, who is to say? One man’s terrorist is another man’s Nelson Mandela. > [@](#): > > They ought to be, as pirates were once considered, _hostis humani generis_, ‘the common enemy of mankind’, such that it is morally incumbent on states not to offer them encouragement or shelter. I disagree that that’s necessarily the call of Israel to make. I’d prefer an outside agency like the court in the Hague make those judgements. > [@](#): > > For those that do, it should be, as you put it, “somewhat understandable” that others take extraordinary measures to root them out and eliminate them. It _is_ understandable to me why Israel thinks it must act as it does. We disagree on what that makes Israel. You say “pragmatic”, I say “arrogant”. > [@](#): > > It strikes me as incomprehensible to support, or at least find “somewhat understandable”, a war (in which many innocents die and whole countries and ways of life are disrupted) as being justified by harbouring a terrorist mastermind, and yet baulk at an assassination inspired by exactly the same motive. In terms of damage done to the innocent, war surely is worse than a targeted assassination? Good thing I have zero actual _support_ for the war in Afghanistan, then, right? I already explained how you’re confusing my “understand” for “accept”. Now, confusion all cleared up? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/150 "2010-02-23T15:04:09Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Assassination is preferable to war, or to doing nothing - as far as I can see the only two alternatives where a government decides to harbour terrorists. […snip…] > > The other option is of course to do nothing. Again with the false di-…let’s make it _tri_chotomy. There \*are \*other options - diplomatic pressure, both direct and through allies, economic sanctions, both of the harbourers and anyone else who won’t speak out against their actions… Hell, _kidnapping_ the guy and putting him on trial, even, would be less reprehensible. Jesus, even going in with a _uniformed_ commando team and getting the guy probably wouldn’t start a war (I mean, really, the _UAE_ is going to attack Israel?), and while it definitely would have diplomatic fallout, so did this. So no, “do nothing” was not the only other option. Assassination was just the easy way out for Israel. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/151 "2010-02-23T15:13:23Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The other option is of course to do nothing. There is of course the possibility that Israel work with other nations to bring the guy to justice, or to assasinate him. Or to enlist the aid of other countries to put pressure on Dubai not to let him in, or to allow Israeli passport holders in Dubai. There are a lot of other options. But naturally, the more people that Israel pisses off, the more of an international outcast (phariah?) it will become. However I guess all of these options are out of the question because every other nation in the world either a) doesn’t understand just what a terrible situation Israel is in or b) Is anti Israeli / anti Semitic The comparisons to the Afghan war tend to ignore one thing - this war was supported by something like 50 nations. Israel’s activities are supported by who? Fine, you can say that these sort of numbers prove nothing, or don’t make the actions any more “right”…to which all I have to say is :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/152 "2010-02-23T15:19:11Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I dunno. Why should that be the measure of the rightness or wrongness of the operation, anyway? What measure would you like to use? You have excluded “international law” ( I am not sure what sort of phrase should be used, maybe violation of properly made and commonly accepted national laws? Commonly accepted standards of international behaviour? Maybe you would like to suggest a phrase that you are comfortable with, because I am pretty sure that you don’t want to be suggesting that just because there is no world govt writing “world laws” for a “earth policeforce” that stealing identities, forging passports and extra judicial killings don’t violate 98% of the world populations standards of acceptable behaviour) ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/153 "2010-02-23T15:29:08Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Um, this may be because, “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also,” doesn’t end up in the Torah. The OT Ywh was a badass. The NT God isn’t so much. I don’t know what you’re responding to or explaining with this crap. Could you clarify, please? ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/154 "2010-02-23T15:44:12Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > From [Why do The Nations hate Israel?](http://www.churchisraelforum.com/why_do_the_nations_hate_israel.htm) > > Would you like to pass comment on this little snippet **Finn Again** , while you are on a roll defending all things Jewish, or at least, Israeli? > > Is it really the case that a lot of Jews have got so used to defending a load of bollocks, that it has now become second nature to them? I’m sorry **ivan** , usually your posts are fairly incomprehensible, but I can’t even start to make sense of this one. What the hell are you trying to say? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/155 "2010-02-23T15:53:56Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > There is of course the possibility that Israel work with other nations to bring the guy to justice, or to assasinate him. Or to enlist the aid of other countries to put pressure on Dubai not to let him in, or to allow Israeli passport holders in Dubai. > > There are a lot of other options. Problem is that none of these measures, in the current international situation, have the slightest chance of success. They are simply a more elaborate way of saying “do nothing”. > [@](#): > > But naturally, the more people that Israel pisses off, the more of an international outcast (phariah?) it will become. Israelis never really were all that popular to begin with; nor were Jews. The 20th century has been a really rotten lesson in Jews relying on international goodwill. > [@](#): > > However I guess all of these options are out of the question because every other nation in the world either > a) doesn’t understand just what a terrible situation Israel is in > or > b) Is anti Israeli / anti Semitic > > The comparisons to the Afghan war tend to ignore one thing - this war was supported by something like 50 nations. Israel’s activities are supported by who? Fine, you can say that these sort of numbers prove nothing, or don’t make the actions any more “right”…to which all I have to say is :rolleyes: Once again, popularity does not make right. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/156 "2010-02-23T15:56:53Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > What measure would you like to use? You have excluded “international law” ( I am not sure what sort of phrase should be used, maybe violation of properly made and commonly accepted national laws? Commonly accepted standards of international behaviour? Maybe you would like to suggest a phrase that you are comfortable with, because I am pretty sure that you don’t want to be suggesting that just because there is no world govt writing “world laws” for a “earth policeforce” that stealing identities, forging passports and extra judicial killings don’t violate 98% of the world populations standards of acceptable behaviour) Until the day that harbouring known terrorists is considered such a violation of world ethical standards that effective means of dealing with them are found, the “world population” will have to tolerate nasty stuff like the use of spies and assassins to take out terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/157 "2010-02-23T15:58:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Again with the false di-…let’s make it _tri_chotomy. There \*are \*other options - diplomatic pressure, both direct and through allies, economic sanctions, both of the harbourers and anyone else who won’t speak out against their actions… Hell, _kidnapping_ the guy and putting him on trial, even, would be less reprehensible. Jesus, even going in with a _uniformed_ commando team and getting the guy probably wouldn’t start a war (I mean, really, the _UAE_ is going to attack Israel?), and while it definitely would have diplomatic fallout, so did this. > > So no, “do nothing” was not the only other option. Assassination was just the easy way out for Israel. Again an elaborate code for “doing nothing”, since Israel’s ability to apply sanctions and the like on Dubai is exactly zero. As for dropping uniformed Israeli commandos - doesn’t that look a tad unlikely? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/158 "2010-02-23T16:00:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Until the day that harbouring known terrorists is considered such a violation of world ethical standards that effective means of dealing with them are found, the “world population” will have to tolerate nasty stuff like the use of spies and assassins to take out terrorists. Uhmmm…excuse me, as has been said many times, the biggest problem is with use of faked passports, in direct violation of a promise made to a country that Israel is friends with. The second problem is with the murder being conducted in Dubai…the “use of spies and assasins” is further down the list. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/159 "2010-02-23T16:04:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Again an elaborate code for “doing nothing”, since Israel’s ability to apply sanctions and the like on Dubai is exactly zero. > > As for dropping uniformed Israeli commandos - doesn’t that look a tad unlikely? So what you are trying to say, is that there are exactly two courses of action in this matter - Israel’s and the wrong one? What makes you think that the reason you can’t get other countries on board with you actions is because of some sort of conspiracy? The problem with this line of thinking, is that it becomes self-fulfilling. Israels recent actions just gave the rest of the world LESS reason to co-operate with you, so next time you will probably have to undertake an even riskier, nastier course of action to achieve your goals…its a downward spiral. Unless you think the rest of the world is gonna be awed by your badass Counterstike skills and amazed by your big brass balls and cowed into doing what you want? ETA - isn’t working with other countries, compromising and some form of quid pro quo the definition of diplomacy? Why must it be either all Israel’s way or nothing? Israel can’t work with others and come to a mutally agreeable solution - THIS is what I am trying to suggest. Explain to other countries why this act by Dubai is bad, and see if they will support you? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/160 "2010-02-23T16:06:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s a distinct difference between the words “understandable” and “acceptable”. I _understand_ the American response like I _understand_ **Finn** ’s acceptance of espionage as a necessary tactic of governments. That does **not** mean I _accept_ it or _agree_ with it. It’s called “empathy”. Let’s look at what words of mine that ellipsis hides: **“not at all what I would have done”**. If you “understand” it, what’s with all the South Africa comparisons? I didn’t see any comparable vitriol in discussing Afganistan - which is, if anything, far worse. > [@](#): > > See, the problem with selective quoting, and then linking back to the post, is that everyone else can see how you took that snippet out of context in order to score some sort of gotcha. Heh, even you must concede that a link back can’t be “out of context”. Point is the comparative level of sympathy given to these two situations. > [@](#): > > The problem here, of course, is that they are only terrorists on your say-so. If they are not brought before a court of law, who is to say? One man’s terrorist is another man’s Nelson Mandela. Why isn’t Bin Laden “another man’s Nelson Mandela”? This is not a very convincing argument - I doubt any unbiased person would mistake a Hamas commander, or bin Laden for that matter, for Nelson Mandela. > [@](#): > > I disagree that that’s necessarily the call of Israel to make. I’d prefer an outside agency like the court in the Hague make those judgements.It _is_ understandable to me why Israel thinks it must act as it does. We disagree on what that makes Israel. You say “pragmatic”, I say “arrogant”. Again, under the circumstances, an elaborade code for “doing nothing”. Sure, i’d prefer that Hamas leaders be hauled in front of some sort of court, too. In a perfect world, they would be. > [@](#): > > Good thing I have zero actual _support_ for the war in Afghanistan, then, right? I already explained how you’re confusing my “understand” for “accept”. Now, confusion all cleared up? So, are you admitting then that the comparison holds, or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609.md?page=9)