# Alessan you syphilus infected rabid cow turd **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609 "2010-02-19T09:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/161 "2010-02-23T16:07:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Again an elaborate code for “doing nothing”, since Israel’s ability to apply sanctions and the like on Dubai is exactly zero. But America, on the other hand… > [@](#): > > As for dropping uniformed Israeli commandos - doesn’t that look a tad unlikely? Why? 'snot like Israel hasn’t done it before. Entebbe comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/162 "2010-02-23T16:08:47Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Uhmmm…excuse me, as has been said many times, the biggest problem is with use of faked passports, in direct violation of a promise made to a country that Israel is friends with. The second problem is with the murder being conducted in Dubai…the “use of spies and assasins” is further down the list. This leads in a circle. To my mind, the big hurdle to overcome is actually murdering folks through assassination. Once you have conceded that this is actually acceptable under the circumstances, the rest is a bagatelle. There is no way for Israel to use spies and assassins in a place like Dubai without faked papers, given that Dubai will not accept Israeli passport holders into the country. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/163 "2010-02-23T16:10:28Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I > Why isn’t Bin Laden “another man’s Nelson Mandela”? How many countries are supporting the capture of Bin Laden? How many countries classified Mandela as a terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/164 "2010-02-23T16:15:56Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > If you “understand” it, what’s with all the South Africa comparisons? Because the South African situation is actually, you know…analogous? Why would I bring up Afghanistan in this thread when SA is a much better comparison in the matter of government-sanctioned murder on foreign soil > [@](#): > > I didn’t see any comparable vitriol in discussing Afghanistan - which is, if anything, far worse. You must not have read anything I’ve ever written about the American military, ever, then. But ranting about Afghanistan _in this thread_ would be bizarre, no? > [@](#): > > Heh, even you must concede that a link back can’t be “out of context”. But a quote can be. Not everyone follows links, but like I said, it wasn’t not the smartest move. > [@](#): > > Point is the comparative level of sympathy given to these two situations. Huh? > [@](#): > > Why isn’t Bin Laden “another man’s Nelson Mandela”? I’m sure he is, to someone. Many someones, actually. We all pick our own Mandelas. > [@](#): > > This is not a very convincing argument - I doubt any \*\*unbiased \*\*person would mistake a Hamas commander, or bin Laden for that matter, for Nelson Mandela. I’m sure no True Scotsman would, either? My point is, if the guy is dead, how the hell are we supposed to know? > [@](#): > > Again, under the circumstances, an elaborade code for “doing nothing”. Sure, i’d prefer that Hamas leaders be hauled in front of some sort of court, too. In a perfect world, they would be. Gandhi had something to say about how to change the world for the better. > [@](#): > > So, are you admitting then that the comparison holds, or not? What comparison? Between Afghanistan and Israel? SA and Afghanistan? What? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/165 "2010-02-23T16:16:17Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > So what you are trying to say, is that there are exactly two courses of action in this matter - Israel’s and the wrong one? Not at all. Only that under these circumstances (country unwilling to take action against terrorists and unsuceptible to diplomatic or economic pressure) there are only three really practical courses of action - an act of war, an assassination, or doing nothing. Actually, a fairly good case can be made that doing nothing is preferable - that the diplomatic fallout from any other course isn’t worth the reward of getting rid of this guy. As I said before, I dunno whether this game was worth the candle. But that’s a purely practical consideration. What I object to, is holding out clearly failing strategies as serious options, when they are, alas, mere wishful thinking. > [@](#): > > What makes you think that the reason you can’t get other countries on board with you actions is because of some sort of conspiracy? The problem with this line of thinking, is that it becomes self-fulfilling. I don’t think it is any sort of “conspiracy”, merely the well-known and well-established Arab world antipathy to Israel, and immunity to diplomatic efforts to modify the same. > [@](#): > > Israels recent actions just gave the rest of the world LESS reason to co-operate with you, so next time you will probably have to undertake an even riskier, nastier course of action to achieve your goals…its a downward spiral. > > Unless you think the rest of the world is gonna be awed by your badass Counterstike skills and amazed by your big brass balls and cowed into doing what you want? > > ETA - isn’t working with other countries, compromising and some form of quid pro quo the definition of diplomacy? Why must it be either all Israel’s way or nothing? Israel can’t work with others and come to a mutally agreeable solution - THIS is what I am trying to suggest. Explain to other countries why this act by Dubai is bad, and see if they will support you? This has zero traction in the current world, given that the Arab world is not, any time soon, going to accept Israel as having any sort of legitimacy in international affairs no matter what Israel does. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/166 "2010-02-23T16:18:01Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > How many countries are supporting the capture of Bin Laden? How many countries classified Mandela as a terrorist? Are you of the opinion that if a large number of countries classify Mandela as a terrorist - then he’s a terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/167 "2010-02-23T16:20:19Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This has zero traction in the current world, given that the Arab world is not, any time soon, going to accept Israel as having any sort of legitimacy in international affairs no matter what Israel does. So the world starts and finishes at what the ARAB world wants? I sure that China, India, Bangladesh, America and the EU would be happy to hear that ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/168 "2010-02-23T16:22:11Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To my mind, the big hurdle to overcome is actually murdering folks through assassination. Oh, I have no doubt once you’re OK with _murder_, a little forgery and fraud is of no moment. Damn this unfashionably unpragmatic “morality” some of us have, eh? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/169 "2010-02-23T16:23:21Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Are you of the opinion that if a large number of countries classify Mandela as a terrorist - then he’s a terrorist? I am saying that if 95% of the world is saying Israel’s actions overstepped the bounds of proper nation / state behaviour, and you are here saying “no it was justified” then it is you who should be looking to re-evaluate your position - unless you think you know something more than everyone else, or have a better tactical grasp on the situation? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/170 "2010-02-23T16:26:34Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Are you of the opinion that if a large number of countries classify Mandela as a terrorist - then he’s a terrorist? Ask Dick Cheney… (and before you go off and miss the facetiousness, the answer is “yes, he was a terrorist” - since “terrorist” is one of those bullshit descriptors only assigned by the superior forces in asymmetric warfare. He was literally a terrorist, because the ANC attacked civilian targets and Mandela never renounced armed struggle. He was \*also \*a freedom fighter. It’s not either-or to me) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/171 "2010-02-23T16:31:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Because the South African situation is actually, you know…analogous? What, a government harbouring a known terrorist isn’t analogous? > [@](#): > > Why would I bring up Afghanistan in this thread when SA is a much better comparison in the matter of government-sanctioned murder on foreign soil Depends on what you see as the basis of the analogy. > [@](#): > > You must not have read anything I’ve ever written about the American military, ever, then. But ranting about Afghanistan _in this thread_ would be bizarre, no?But a quote can be. Not everyone follows links, but like I said, it wasn’t not the smartest move. Obviously it was the smartest move, since I had no intention whatsoever to deceive. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Huh?I’m sure he is, to someone. Many someones, actually. We all pick our own Mandelas. Really? You don’t think the description of “terrorist” has any objective basis whatsoever? > [@](#): > > I’m sure no True Scotsman would, either? My point is, if the guy is dead, how the hell are we supposed to know? Uh, by his acts before he died? > [@](#): > > Gandhi had something to say about how to change the world for the better. I liked Gandhi’s advice to the Jews in WW2 - embrace non-violence and shame the Nazis. Not advice I’m willing to take, alas. Nor am I convinced that suicide will make the world a better place. > [@](#): > > What comparison? Between Afghanistan and Israel? SA and Afghanistan? What? Between this assassination and the war in Afganistan. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/172 "2010-02-23T16:32:24Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > So the world starts and finishes at what the ARAB world wants? I sure that China, India, Bangladesh, America and the EU would be happy to hear that If the guy were hiding in China, etc., then their views would be significant. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/173 "2010-02-23T16:34:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, I have no doubt once you’re OK with _murder_, a little forgery and fraud is of no moment. Damn this unfashionably unpragmatic “morality” some of us have, eh? Exactly right. Strikes me as strange to say the least to condone murder and quail at forgery. Of course, it strikes me as even stranger to find the murder of one terrorist somehow worse than a war. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/174 "2010-02-23T16:35:46Z")
OK…[this](http://enduringamerica.com/2010/02/22/middle-east-inside-line-eu-on-dubai-killing-netanyahu-on-iran-palestine-state-by-2012/) site may, or may not be reliable, but I did find the sequential stories amusing. Immediately following a story on how the EU is angry about the passport thing, there is a story commenting on how Israel wants the co-operation of the rest of the world to impose sanctions on Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/175 "2010-02-23T16:37:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Ask Dick Cheney… > > (and before you go off and miss the facetiousness, the answer is “yes, he was a terrorist” - since “terrorist” is one of those bullshit descriptors only assigned by the superior forces in asymmetric warfare. He was literally a terrorist, because the ANC attacked civilian targets and Mandela never renounced armed struggle. He was \*also \*a freedom fighter. It’s not either-or to me) So were many folks who went on to become great statesmen, true. That doesn’t mean that when they are actually, you know, killing innocent civilians, their assassination should raise moral qualms. Disagree that “terrorist” is a “bullshit discriptor”. It’s a person who employs a technique - using violence to spread terror. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/176 "2010-02-23T16:39:44Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Exactly right. Strikes me as strange to say the least to condone murder and quail at forgery. > > Of course, it strikes me as even stranger to find the murder of one terrorist somehow worse than a war. Except that it’s the murder of a terrorist, someone (by your definition) that deserved to die, while the forgery and identity theft was perpetrated on countries that are ostensibly friends of Israel - and its something that the countries involved are just a tad upset about. But then, when the whole world’s against you, you can just treat everyone like an enemy right? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/177 "2010-02-23T16:43:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > If the guy were hiding in China, etc., then their views would be significant. So China, the US and the EU can’t “help” Israel by putting pressure on Dubai? I guess they wouldn’t ever do that would they? Mind you, if a rabid dog keeps biting me, I don’t particularly want to feed it. No country ever put pressure on South Africa did they? Everybody just minded their own business ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/178 "2010-02-23T17:48:13Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > What, a government harbouring a known terrorist isn’t analogous? No, a war isn’t analogous to an assassination. > [@](#): > > Depends on what you see as the basis of the analogy. Well, since it’s my choice of analogy - the covert operations aspect of it. > [@](#): > > Obviously it was the smartest move, since I had no intention whatsoever to deceive. :rolleyes: I don’t believe you. > [@](#): > > Really? You don’t think the description of “terrorist” has any objective basis whatsoever? No, I don’t. It’s whatever the people in power say it is. > [@](#): > > Uh, by his acts before he died? Which were tested in which court, pray tell? > [@](#): > > I liked Gandhi’s advice to the Jews in WW2 - embrace non-violence and shame the Nazis. I’ve heard worse advice. I’ve also heard better, mind you. I was thinking of “Be the change that you want to see in the world”. Good advice for everyone who says “but it’s not meeeee, that’s just how the world is”:dubious: > [@](#): > > Not advice I’m willing to take, alas. Nor am I convinced that suicide will make the world a better place. I know, you prefer to base your new order on murder, instead. > [@](#): > > Between this assassination and the war in Afganistan. There isn’t really much of a comparison. You might have a point if Afghanistan was about getting Bin Laden ( rather than punishing the Taliban or just killing some Muslims, any Muslims), but I think we can all see how \*hard \*and _singlemindedly_ the coalition’s worked on getting that terrorist, don’t you? Kind of gives the lie to any resemblance in the two cases. > [@Malthus](#): > > Of course, it strikes me as even stranger to find the murder of one terrorist somehow worse than a war. You keep wacking away at that strawman, I’m sure it’ll come close to resembling what I actually said about Afganistan and this case … someday ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/179 "2010-02-23T18:34:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, a war isn’t analogous to an assassination. > > Well, since it’s my choice of analogy - the covert operations aspect of it. Pretty obviously, I’m thinking more along the lines of the harbouring known terrorist aspect of it. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe you. Yeah, posting a link to a quote is _obviously_ an attempt to deceive. Only a really stupid one, since it won’t, you know, actually deceive anyone. :rolleyes: Do you actually believe this, or are you just spewing randomly? > [@](#): > > No, I don’t. It’s whatever the people in power say it is. You have lost all touch with reality. > [@](#): > > Which were tested in which court, pray tell? This is legalism taken to its (il)logical extreme. In any event, given that you think terrorism is all subjective, what difference would a court make? Wouldn’t that just be those in power keeping the poor man down, if they ruled the fellow was a terrorist? > [@](#): > > I’ve heard worse advice. I’ve also heard better, mind you. I was thinking of “Be the change that you want to see in the world”. Good advice for everyone who says “but it’s not meeeee, that’s just how the world is”:dubious: Yeah, what the world needs is an inspiring slogan. That’ll solve everything! If only the Jews had more inspiring slogans in WW2. > [@](#): > > I know, you prefer to base your new order on murder, instead. Yes, that is a reasonable interpretation of my position. Not. > [@](#): > > There isn’t really much of a comparison. You might have a point if Afghanistan was about getting Bin Laden ( rather than punishing the Taliban or just killing some Muslims, any Muslims), but I think we can all see how \*hard \*and _singlemindedly_ the coalition’s worked on getting that terrorist, don’t you? Kind of gives the lie to any resemblance in the two cases. You really think the war in Afganistan is just about randomly killing Muslims? 😕 > [@](#): > > You keep wacking away at that strawman, I’m sure it’ll come close to resembling what I actually said about Afganistan and this case … someday I misinterpreted your level of crazy. According to your stated position, the war in Afganistan appears to be all about simply randomly killing Muslims, which is obviously going to be a lot worse motive than killing a known terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609/180 "2010-02-23T18:56:40Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Why the hell do you think we have a good reputation on the world stage? What good reputation? The world stage knows you for fuck all but as sheep wankers. Anyway fuck Israel. For all the good things Denmark has done for you, you go and pick a bunch of sheep pussies. Next time you better honour Denmark by using Danish passports for such a noble and worthwhile endeavour. I’m sure our PM would give you a medal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alessan-you-syphilus-infected-rabid-cow-turd/529609.md?page=10)