But America, on the other hand…
Why? 'snot like Israel hasn’t done it before. Entebbe comes to mind.
This leads in a circle. To my mind, the big hurdle to overcome is actually murdering folks through assassination. Once you have conceded that this is actually acceptable under the circumstances, the rest is a bagatelle.
There is no way for Israel to use spies and assassins in a place like Dubai without faked papers, given that Dubai will not accept Israeli passport holders into the country.
How many countries are supporting the capture of Bin Laden? How many countries classified Mandela as a terrorist?
Because the South African situation is actually, you know…analogous? Why would I bring up Afghanistan in this thread when SA is a much better comparison in the matter of government-sanctioned murder on foreign soil
You must not have read anything I’ve ever written about the American military, ever, then. But ranting about Afghanistan in this thread would be bizarre, no?
But a quote can be. Not everyone follows links, but like I said, it wasn’t not the smartest move.
Huh?
I’m sure he is, to someone. Many someones, actually. We all pick our own Mandelas.
I’m sure no True Scotsman would, either? My point is, if the guy is dead, how the hell are we supposed to know?
Gandhi had something to say about how to change the world for the better.
What comparison? Between Afghanistan and Israel? SA and Afghanistan? What?
Not at all. Only that under these circumstances (country unwilling to take action against terrorists and unsuceptible to diplomatic or economic pressure) there are only three really practical courses of action - an act of war, an assassination, or doing nothing.
Actually, a fairly good case can be made that doing nothing is preferable - that the diplomatic fallout from any other course isn’t worth the reward of getting rid of this guy. As I said before, I dunno whether this game was worth the candle.
But that’s a purely practical consideration. What I object to, is holding out clearly failing strategies as serious options, when they are, alas, mere wishful thinking.
I don’t think it is any sort of “conspiracy”, merely the well-known and well-established Arab world antipathy to Israel, and immunity to diplomatic efforts to modify the same.
This has zero traction in the current world, given that the Arab world is not, any time soon, going to accept Israel as having any sort of legitimacy in international affairs no matter what Israel does.
Are you of the opinion that if a large number of countries classify Mandela as a terrorist - then he’s a terrorist?
So the world starts and finishes at what the ARAB world wants? I sure that China, India, Bangladesh, America and the EU would be happy to hear that
Oh, I have no doubt once you’re OK with murder, a little forgery and fraud is of no moment. Damn this unfashionably unpragmatic “morality” some of us have, eh?
I am saying that if 95% of the world is saying Israel’s actions overstepped the bounds of proper nation / state behaviour, and you are here saying “no it was justified” then it is you who should be looking to re-evaluate your position - unless you think you know something more than everyone else, or have a better tactical grasp on the situation?
Ask Dick Cheney…
(and before you go off and miss the facetiousness, the answer is “yes, he was a terrorist” - since “terrorist” is one of those bullshit descriptors only assigned by the superior forces in asymmetric warfare. He was literally a terrorist, because the ANC attacked civilian targets and Mandela never renounced armed struggle. He was *also *a freedom fighter. It’s not either-or to me)
What, a government harbouring a known terrorist isn’t analogous?
Depends on what you see as the basis of the analogy.
Obviously it was the smartest move, since I had no intention whatsoever to deceive. :rolleyes:
Really? You don’t think the description of “terrorist” has any objective basis whatsoever?
Uh, by his acts before he died?
I liked Gandhi’s advice to the Jews in WW2 - embrace non-violence and shame the Nazis.
Not advice I’m willing to take, alas. Nor am I convinced that suicide will make the world a better place.
Between this assassination and the war in Afganistan.
If the guy were hiding in China, etc., then their views would be significant.
Exactly right. Strikes me as strange to say the least to condone murder and quail at forgery.
Of course, it strikes me as even stranger to find the murder of one terrorist somehow worse than a war.
OK…this site may, or may not be reliable, but I did find the sequential stories amusing.
Immediately following a story on how the EU is angry about the passport thing, there is a story commenting on how Israel wants the co-operation of the rest of the world to impose sanctions on Iran.
So were many folks who went on to become great statesmen, true. That doesn’t mean that when they are actually, you know, killing innocent civilians, their assassination should raise moral qualms.
Disagree that “terrorist” is a “bullshit discriptor”. It’s a person who employs a technique - using violence to spread terror.
Except that it’s the murder of a terrorist, someone (by your definition) that deserved to die, while the forgery and identity theft was perpetrated on countries that are ostensibly friends of Israel - and its something that the countries involved are just a tad upset about.
But then, when the whole world’s against you, you can just treat everyone like an enemy right?
So China, the US and the EU can’t “help” Israel by putting pressure on Dubai? I guess they wouldn’t ever do that would they? Mind you, if a rabid dog keeps biting me, I don’t particularly want to feed it.
No country ever put pressure on South Africa did they? Everybody just minded their own business
No, a war isn’t analogous to an assassination.
Well, since it’s my choice of analogy - the covert operations aspect of it.
I don’t believe you.
No, I don’t. It’s whatever the people in power say it is.
Which were tested in which court, pray tell?
I’ve heard worse advice. I’ve also heard better, mind you. I was thinking of “Be the change that you want to see in the world”. Good advice for everyone who says “but it’s not meeeee, that’s just how the world is”:dubious:
I know, you prefer to base your new order on murder, instead.
There isn’t really much of a comparison. You might have a point if Afghanistan was about getting Bin Laden ( rather than punishing the Taliban or just killing some Muslims, any Muslims), but I think we can all see how *hard *and singlemindedly the coalition’s worked on getting that terrorist, don’t you? Kind of gives the lie to any resemblance in the two cases.
You keep wacking away at that strawman, I’m sure it’ll come close to resembling what I actually said about Afganistan and this case … someday
Pretty obviously, I’m thinking more along the lines of the harbouring known terrorist aspect of it.
Yeah, posting a link to a quote is obviously an attempt to deceive. Only a really stupid one, since it won’t, you know, actually deceive anyone. :rolleyes:
Do you actually believe this, or are you just spewing randomly?
You have lost all touch with reality.
This is legalism taken to its (il)logical extreme. In any event, given that you think terrorism is all subjective, what difference would a court make? Wouldn’t that just be those in power keeping the poor man down, if they ruled the fellow was a terrorist?
Yeah, what the world needs is an inspiring slogan. That’ll solve everything!
If only the Jews had more inspiring slogans in WW2.
Yes, that is a reasonable interpretation of my position. Not.
You really think the war in Afganistan is just about randomly killing Muslims? 
I misinterpreted your level of crazy. According to your stated position, the war in Afganistan appears to be all about simply randomly killing Muslims, which is obviously going to be a lot worse motive than killing a known terrorist.
What good reputation? The world stage knows you for fuck all but as sheep wankers. Anyway fuck Israel. For all the good things Denmark has done for you, you go and pick a bunch of sheep pussies. Next time you better honour Denmark by using Danish passports for such a noble and worthwhile endeavour. I’m sure our PM would give you a medal.